Clothes, Armors and Longspears... Many duplications

Hello!

I was wondering what the point of having a lot of clothes (including hats, cloaks, robes, etc.) and pieces of armors (gauntlets, helms, boots, etc.) in the game is.

These items do not grant any improvements and they can cost a lot.

On the same line, who would ever buy a steel shield if the wooden one costs less, is less heavy and protects equally well?

I might think that this is done for the sake of variation/realism but was it really the only reason?

Also, in the game there are three kind of spears: shortspears, spears and longspears. The first two have a range of 20 while the third one has 0. Spears and longspears are both two-handed weapons but the latter costs more.

What I am trying to say is that Temple of Elemental Evil seems rather dispersive when it comes down to equipment. There are lots of duplications of items (including weapons) that don't really seem to have a valid reason for their presence.

What strikes me the most though is that the Co8 mod adds their own share to this: aren't barbarian armors and druid hide just the very same as studded leather armors with a different look? And aren't barbarian longswords just longswords?

Or am I missing something here?

Any contribution to this discussion is much appreciated!

 

The range of the longspear always had me confused also. One would assume that a longspear is longer than a shortspear.

This experience is, however, not new and unique to TOEE. Quoth Socrates at the Athens marketplace 400+ BC: "What a lot of things I don't need!" This phenomenon was finally overcome by communism, but now we're back to having goods on the market.

I think you might be missing the role-playing aspect that some players actually care about how their characters look.

 

As mentioned above its for the sake of role playing (aka fitting a char with equipment to match he's background / regional flavor ) also sometimes it isn't just for cosmetic' effect for exe there are 4 types of short swords : 1)short sword 2)gladius 3)cutlass 4) wakizashi yes in adition to looking pretty and unique 1 and 2 do piercing damage while 3 and 4 do slashing damage (somewhat of a valid option for a single class rogue that needs to diversify his dmg types to suit diferent oponents but seems to lack the plethora of feats/proficiencies/focuses that a figther gets before lunch')
I honestly think that variety here actualy enhances the story imersion i for one would be repulsed to think how some clases in the game would feel like dresssed up in the 'imperial legion' fashion say'n: ugh Me Thor great barbarian hero of 'snowy peaks' came to seek my fortune in these lands (while the observer notices him wearing metalic armor along with a sturdy steel shield and of course a very shiny new long sword ... that will definitely make some ones day :evilgrin: ) ... nuff said

 

I am all for roleplaying. I have been a classic role player before playing any compure role playing game so I do understand what you guys mean.

Still, I believe that variation should be sensible. With sensible I mean that it also has some effect in the actual gameplay and not mainly cosmetic.

Example, Ank speaks of a possible scenario where the armor and/or weapon does not match the background of a specific class.

But what depth is to it? Does the game notice that "something is wrong" for that specific character? No, it doesn't matter. You can be a monk wearing a wizard robe instead of a monk robe or you can be a fighter using a wizard hat: nothing would change in the game (this are just two example out of hundreds).

All these choices given don't have a real impact in the gameplay thus I don't find them sensible and justified. The roleplaying aspect must cause some sort of reaction in the game to justify its introduction. Otherwise it's just a shallow addition.

It's much more acceptable when variations are not just cosmetic like for the different type of short swords. But even in the case of the short sword, gladius, cutlass and wakizashi we have two pair of swords that have identical stats (two of them slashing damage and the other two piercing damage; for the rest they are the same).

 

The range of a weapon determines whether the weapon can be used as a ranged weapon or not. The longspear has a range of 0 so it can't be thrown. It is worth more than a shortspear or spear because a longspear is a reach weapon (i.e. you can normally attack opponents 10 feet away when wielding a longspear). You can only normally attack opponents 5 feet away when wielding a shortspear or spear. The shortspear and spear have a range of 20 which means that you can throw these weapons at opponents. The range of the weapon determines the distance increments for the range penalties to hit an opponent. A range of 20 means that the thrower receives no range penalty to hit an opponent up to 20 feet away. For each increment of the weapon's range (in this case, every 20 feet), the range penalty to hit an opponent when throwing (or firing) the weapon gets progressively worse.

The variety of clothes and weapons and armour in the computer game is one of the best things about the game. When equipped, each item of clothing or armour or weapon is visible on the character, which allows the player to give their characters the appearance that they want them to look, and it helps to individualize and identify characters as to what their character class could be. I personally think that the barbarian armour and hide armour look really cool.

 

Thank you for all those infos, gazra_1971.

I own the original game of course and I also read the manual more than once. I don't remember reading all this anywhere. Or is there another source you used?

About the different kind of clothing and armor, I am not really against customizing one's character so that it can be better distinguished in the battlefield and such. I am just against going over the top, adding many duplications to items that in practice have exactly the same function. I also think Barbarian armor is cool, mind you. But why not restricting its use to Barbarian only then? Co8 introduces many more items that are available to any class despite having a specific class reference: I mentioned the Barbarian Armor and the Druid Hide but there are countless more.

 

Once, I had four females half-orcs fighters in a group. first, they all using chain mail, then breast-plates, and finally full plates. Even with diferent hair styles, it was hard to point who was who in the warband... In a much more recent game, I do a very similar thing - just six female half-orcs, two being clerics - and I decided to use monk robes of diferent colours in each one. Later, they beggin to uses capes of diferent colours. And so, I had no problems with "who is who". Its a minor detail, maybe, but sometimes is very important.

About armours: I'm not sure, but I think that Barbarian armours shall be used to craft magical armours by druids, being considered, all of then, exceptional. The studded leather has the tow kinds - normal and exceptional - and just the exceptional shall be used by druids to craft magic armours. In the other hand, once there are no "exceptional" version of the barbarian armour, no one - except the druid - shall use this armour to craft magic armours.
Note that this information is based on my own game experience, and nothing more.

About barbarian long sword: I have no clue. And it dont look like a barbarian sword for me, but much more a elvish sowrd - its smaller and has more retails than a normal long sword.

About metal and wood shields: Druids shall use the wooden version of this gear, only. All the other classes shall use both. Well, wood its better, really... But the metal version is on the books. And ya cant use 'warp wood' on metal shields...

And I like the option of clothes. Diferent colours for the boots of my characters. Diferent hats. Robes, Capes - and I'm looking for diferent colours of cloacks! There exist just blue?! - and all this stuff. I love this in the game. I love the options! Nothing more to say.

 

Just to put things in perspective i could show 4 examples of rather identical char build using a variety of functionally similar equipment :
Samurai like : Scale leather armor , tan leather boots&gloves , wakizashi ,face enclosing helm(the more intimidating the better) background: upper class warrior/descendent from an ancient war clan.... ...
Imperial legion like: chain shirt, chain protected boots&gloves, gladius, metal shield , metal helm maybe a red cloak(in case of high ranking official) background: centurion like/commander... ...
Pirate like : padded armor, padded boots&gloves ,cutlass , wooden shield ,bandana' background irate/shady mercenary for hire (u paid for my arms not my life' type who flees when things get rly sticky)... ...
Rogue like: black leather armor, black leather boots&gloves , short sword , black cloak background : profesional thief , assassin, spy ... ...
True enough the game doesn't give a damn about the boots color and stuff but: 'U DO' you want to find yourself in place that hints towards the existence of vast faraway lands filled with the promise of unseen/unheard of treasure and inhabited by mystical/misteryous/magical people/creatures. AND not about 'the valley of the grind' inhabited by average joe's tormented by sewer rats problems and be enticed by the promise of finding a broken watch or a banana that isn't rotten to the core yet
Hopefully the valley of the grind analogy hasn't traumatized anyone' and helps paint the big picture of why so many identical stuff exists (it's to simulate an area at a crossroad of cultures and thus hinting towards an epic scale travel u are about to undertake)

 

I wish someone could add caultrops to the temple or another encounter, then check to see if each character is wearing boots or they take damage from walking through the area. Otherwise all my characters go barefoot unless they wear magic boots/ Saves on weigh and opens another slot to carry stuff back to town to sell.

 

Does the choice of boots actually influence Sneak and Listen checks? Apart from the Elvenkind boots, I mean.

 

AAAH, but it most certainly does sound as if you are against having different kinds of armour/clothing !! Let me guess-POWER GAMER, right?! If you had your way there would probably be 1 look of Longsword, 1 colour choice and 1 kind of overgarment, if any at all ?! Some people actually ENJOY roleplaying and probably spend alot of their time shopping for a "different look"! I don't think that having many different variations of the same thing is over the top or 'shallow', as you bluntly put-it. It's called having FUN.
Remember, if you don't like it you can just play your own drab characters. I don't think the modders here have vested huge amounts of time putting in fancy new clothing lines and the like! It's not taking-up huge amounts of space on your hard drive either.

 

Yes Gaear, I agree wholeheartedly! I for one enjoy the 'look' I give my characters and so do my kids when they play. You couldn't make enough different styles of the same weapons, for me; the different looks are so cool! Same with the clothing. Don't get me wrong though, I understand the artwork and how meticulous it must be for those who submitted the designs! It's just that in the grand scheme of things, this is one area that's not going to get the high priority versus gameplay, new content or the like ( I can only assume), not to mention finding the bodies talented enough to do the work in the first place! Their efforts are VERY much appreciated by myself, my family and I'm sure most of the TOEE community.

 

My wizard looks hot in her pink mystic garb. It's cool how you can customize your players like that.