Zert: First Level Fighter?

Something else to consider is that of the NPCs that can be recruited, only Elmo and Furnok would not betray the party in some fashion.

Zert, Turuko and Kobort were all supposed to betray the party at one point. There was also the probability that these three would at some point follow the group and attack them after coming from a foray at the Moat House to kill them.

Spuignoir was supposed to pass himself off as a Sage, not a Magic-User. He was also supposed to shadow the party if not offered the chance to come along.

I dont know if scripts could be written to reflect this.

 

Kalshane -

The bottom line is that I use the NPCs. In every single game I use the NPCs. I enjoy using them, but I absolutely hate it when they are so powerful that it makes the game too easy.

I don't see why my enjoyment of using these NPCs should be dictated by people that can't seem to play the game without having some overly powerful NPCs in their party.

I have never played a game of TOEE without using the NPCs.

For the most part all the NPCs seem fine to me, except for those in the Winch.

It is too unbalancing for them to be such high levels.

I understand that you would prefer them to be higher levels. And, again, I suggest that you change them to be higher level.

I don't have a monoply on being able to edit the Protos.tab file. Anyone can do it.

I suggest you simply edit your file and then you can have it the way you want it.

- Livonya

 

House rules is a good enough reason for me.

However, I'm wondering whether Agetian and Dulcaoin's ToEE frontend could give you the option to choose NPC levels?

 

Did you not actually read my post, particularly the part about the vampiric were-donkey?

It makes no difference to me, personally. I'm simply arguing in favor of keeping the NPCs as they were for those who do find it to be more difficult and don't have the skills to change things themselves. That's all. You're acting like I want to make St. Cuthbert my personal sidekick.

 

- I mean Furnok as level 4, Kobort as level 2, Turoko as level 3, and Elmo as level 4!!

I think Livonya did the right thing by setting the NPCs to level 1. I, personally, was sick of getting NPCs with Exotic Weapon Prof: Gnome Hooked Hammer when you could never find one in the $#@! game!

Also keep in mind that the ToEE modules were not done in D&D 3.X. In 2E, rogues needed less experience to level, heck each class had its own advancement table, and fighters didn't have anything like feats without using an optional rulebook. If the total XP needed to be a 4th level rogue, 2nd level fighter, 3rd level monk, etc was the same, then the NPCs _should_ all be the same level.

Alas my 2nd edition players guide hasn't been unpacked since I moved, so I can't check the numbers. Regardless, the game was entirely too easy without even using the NPCs. You could web anything and it would just stand there while you chipped away at it with reach and ranged weapons. Magic users would cast spells that don't stack (bane/bless) over and over again, etc. I'm thankful for all the changes Liv has done.

I'm excited to see if Hedrak's wizard buddy still summons elementals that attack each other. :-D

greylord

 

i agree with you Liv ive always found the game way to easy and what you did with the NPC's is fine with me. i only use a couple of them on and off during the game, melany being the exception she stays the whole time. i like to leave a slot open for those spur of the moment additions in the temple

 

In this case...

...Liv's the DM, and we're playing by her rules if we use her mod, so...there you have it. I still think they were made higher levels for a reason, and don't see these as imbalance, but rather as 'character'.

Personally, I've gotten away from using any of the NPC's, opting to have 4 PC's as the max. My last party was an elven druid, human barbarian (TWF), halfling rogue/ranger (archer), & a 1/2 elf bard...no NPC's. No trouble at all with things like balors & demon queens, either, due mainly to some withering archery from a hobbit!

 

I agree there was a reason, but it didn't translate in TOEE. So instead they are just great NPCs that can join your party... too great... not enough draw back.

I am testing right now. If I can get the NPCs that have other motives to actually work properly then I will upgrade them as they offer their own unique draw backs.

I think I have them working but I need to get a feel for what happens in game.

- Livonya

PS: Also, I don't have the original Module. It would be great if someone could Private Message me (so not to spoil the plots) with some of the "private agendas" that some of the NPCs had in the original. I think I have them figured out for most of them, but I am not so sure with regards to a few of them.

 

Exactly. I agree completely.

 

Hello guys! I'm very happy since my exam went really, really fine!
I want to share my opinion about NPCs. (sorry if sometimes I write PNG that is the italian translation and it is quite instinctual for me)
I think that a NPC must be useful and charismatic. For example, elmo is great even if he is just outpowered. Having such scores with rolls is quite hard: he is so good that he could be any kind of warrior: melee, 2 weapons, archer, ranger, .... everything! Idem for otis and some others.
The problem of makin' them of level 1 is that they are useful only at the early stages of the game. Why a party should pikc up Zaxxis when they are at level 7, when he is still at level 1? Just to have a bard? Non-sense. I think that some, like elmo should still be at an higher level *but* require a higher fee to be recruited, something that only a party of his own level may be ready to pay. Others, like Spunongir, are fine at Level 1, as well Riana and her sister, or Meleny, since they are effectively unexpert characters that never ventured alone or with a party. Instead others are quite stupids...
I think anyway, that it would be nicer to find some character out of role. For example Pitak and the other orc: one of them is a perfect barbarian, the oter is smarter but generally weaker. I mean: why not making him a proficient thief with int 13 or a decent ranger or archer, instead of the usual barbarian orc? Idem for the sailor in the temple: make him someway useful! I can't belive that an expert sailorman that saw many seas under the sun just survived without becomming an artisan, an expert, a ranger, fighter or thief. It is non sense!
I would like to modify them as well, but I don't know how:
- having elmo to cost 600 MO instead of 200, adding warrior feats to NPCs, since it looks like that there are not enough colums, how to set skill points and new learned spells. I'm afraid of messing up the game.... and anyway, since the new patches allows the NPCs to level rise like PC, so the problem would just to be in setting their intial values.

 

well elmo didnt get set to level 1 he is still at 4th and outside of hommlet the other npcs didnt get changed either. its just the ones at the wench and fruella that are now at level 1 i believe. so they will be the same level as your party when you pick them up.