I have just created the following party: Wizard - Elf Rogue - Halfling Ranger - Half Elf Cleric - Elf now, I want a Bard, but is it worth it? I figure I can hire Elmo and/or Zert if I want a Fighter in my party. I do not want a Paladin, too many restrictions. I am not partial to Monks either. Too bad they do not have the Assassin Class like in the old AD&D! So, Fighter, Barbarian, or Bard? most of you will probably say Fighter or Barbarian, but what can a Bard do for my party in the game? I know what the user manual says. I often thought a Dwarf Barbarian would be nice? what do you think? This is my 3rd time through the game, I never finished in the past because it kept crashing on me. But it works great with all latest patches now. thanks, Tim
You need a tank, so go fighter (fighter because then you can take advantage of the the heavier armours in the game). Bards are a support class so if I really wanted a bard, I'd swap the ranger or rogue for the bard. Or you can just leave an NPC slot free in case you run into an NPC bard at some point...
You could also get just one level of bard to get the +1 from inspire courage (make sure you've got enough ranks in perform), then go fighter the rest of the way. IC is one of the best reasons to get a bard anyway, imo. You'll have to take a human, half-elf or dwarf to avoid penalties for uneven levels, though. You could also go bard/barbarian and go half-orc.
Personally, I never play without a Bard and a Druid. All the other classes are support classed for my two favorite classes. I think you can have a fun game no matter what classes you pick. I say go for what you enjoy and then figure out how to make that work out later. Truthfully, if you know how to use the classes I think they are quite balanced. Some people say Bards aren't so great, but if you know how to use them they can be awesome. Flexibility is what they give you. My main party is: Bard - human Druid - Half orc Rogue - hafling Wizard - elf Cleric - dwarf I hire the muscle. Or use summoned critters. And my bard uses charm and suggestion when I need some meat to throw between me and my enemies. Muscle is over rated. I don't think I have ever used a Fighter as part of my main party. - Livonya
i like both barbarians and bards and have had both. i use bards in place of thiefs usally but now that Liv has made the traps harder im using a thief again my party is usally 1/2 orc barbarian human cleric elf wizard 1/2 elf ranger/rouge......or bard dwarf fighter i also usally use a 6th PC 1/2 elf fighter/cleric i would use frullea for this but she needs to be buffed to be cleric then i pick up a couple of other npc's to round it out like meleny and elmo
Meleny Poor Meleny, the lowly Druid. Druid level 11, AC28, 72HP. S16(BeltofGiantStrength+6),GlovesofDexrerity+6, Amulet of Health+6, Scimitar+3Flaming. Call lightning, Flamestrike, CallLightningstorm. Troll in her face, 5-step drop, CallLightningstorm. Troll dead. Poor Meleny. She's so mean to the trolls. Masterworks studdedleather, large wodden shield, all crafted+3. Bad demoness, CallLightningstorm, back to the Abyss for 66 years. Poor little Meleny. Could you use a Druid like her? s
Bard... ...is the way to go, especially for the crafting. Your ranger, cleric and rogue have enough fighting skills to balance out the need for a straight fighter. The bard won't be a slouch at it either, once you've crafted the right stuff for everyone...select your attributes wisely! Multi-classing can boost your efficiency, too. Ranger wizard elf...rogue ranger halfling...both bow specialists, of course. With the level cap remover mod, they are much more effective.
On my current run-through using Livonya's mod, I decided to recreate my party from my first run through the game. It's pretty much Kalshane's all-stars, as I recreated my favorite PnP characters over the years and threw them into one party. Human Rogue with TWF (with a level of fighter) Human Paladin with greatsword Human Cleric (War and Good for domains) Human Fighter (Specialized in Bastard Sword. Too bad ToEE doesn't have all the shield feats, since his PnP counterpart was all about doing nasty things to people with his shield and then following it up with his sword) Elf Ranger with TWF path Elf Sorcerer with mostly Evocation and Charm spells. The main problem with this party is the Cleric gets stuck with most of the crafting duties because of the Sorcerer's limited spell selection. My normal builds always include a Rogue, a tank (fighter, paladin or barbarian), a cleric and a mage (wizard or sorcerer, almost always elven for the bow proficiencies, though I've done human and gnome before). The final slot(s) go to a bard, ranger or druid (or sometimes a second "tank", depending). I always make sure I have someone "woodsy" that can take ranks in Survival, though. Dwarf, Human and Half-Orc fighter/barbarians can be pretty brutal. Start with a level of Barbarian, take 4 levels of fighter to get Weapon Spec in a two-handed weapon, plus Power Attack and Cleave, then finish off as barbarian. One nice thing about Dwarf barbarians is they move just as fast as human and elf characters.
You can actualy use your cleric as a tank, if you use the right spells, only problem is that you then HAVE to (atleast should) have a backup healer. Tho this is true even if you dont use him/her as a tank. My current party, just for kicks is: Dwarven Cleric - using greatsword. Half Orc Fighter - using spiked chain (going for some nice cleave and AO's) Elven Sorcerer - just cus I always pick wizard. Human Ranger - Bastard sword + short sword. Human Paladin - Longsword + shield (main tank). Only problem is that I dont have a high skill char, like a rouge or a bard.
One of my more recent run throughs was interesting in I didn't have a real tank. My party consisted of: Human Rogue Human Ranger/Rogue Human Cleric Elf Sorcerer Human Evoker I had to be careful on the early levels, but once I hit level 5 or so I had a ridiculous amount of firepower.
Clerics (or Paladins) are necessary because ... I like to have a cleric in my party at all times. Sometimes I pick a cleric that dominates undead, sometimes the opposite (destroys them) depending on my mood, but a party without a cleric, at least in the early to middle stages of the game, or something similar (paladin for example), can sometimes get into real trouble with the undead, at least that is my experience (i.e. wandering across the adventure map and encounter lacedon on the way, or resting in the temple and encountering ghouls). Ghouls and lacedons can paralyse, and if they paralyse the tank-type fighter in the party the whole party can be in trouble unless that cleric (or paladin) can dominate or destroy them with Turn Undead (I've seen one lacedon destroy a 2nd level party without a cleric, ugh!). Intersting note: I had a cleric in my party once that commanded some ghouls and ghasts into the party. During a fight with Balor one of the ghouls/ghasts paralysed Balor and I was able to kill it easily. The same thing happened with her fungal highness at the end. Has anyone else had this happen ? I wonder if the spell Ghoul Touch also paralyses demons, I haven't tried this yet so I don't know. I also wonder if the ghouls/ghasts, or Ghoul Touch, can paralyse Iuz or St. Cuthbert ? Hmmmmm .... Does anyone know the answer to this as well ?
I don't know how the game does it. If it's true to D&D, then demons can be paralyzed just fine. Ghoul Touch is kind of a long shot, because not only does the demon get a saving throw, but you also have to punch through their spell resistance (which is a hefty 28 for a Balor). The touch of an actual ghoul (as opposed to the Ghoul Touch spell) doesn't allow spell resistance, so it's a lot more likely to work against powerful demons. They still get a saving throw, of course. Again, I don't know how it works in the game. I do know the way it should work in theory, though: Even the weakest demi-god is immune to paralysis. That rules out St. Cuthbert. I'm not sure whether Iuz is a demi-god; if he is, he should also be immune.
Programmres didn't had the time to set many of racial attributes for monsters. Multiattac creatures fighting like clerics (+15,+10+5), elementals being hitted by sneak attacks and now this. The surprice for me is that those game bosses failed the saving throw! I'm not surpriced anymore to find some weird stuff about them.
