Wish List for Modpack 8 and up

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Aquinas, Oct 30, 2012.

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  1. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    Major_Blackhart, I don't want to get into a debate over what is the most optimized way to play a Barbarian because I don't have anything personal against you and this game is all about "playing the characters that you want to play", but I will make the following points in response to your points:

    1. Equipping a Barbarian with Mithril Plate Armour denies the Barbarian +10 Speed which kind of defeats the purpose of playing a Barbarian in the first place (in my opinion, as I consider the Barbarian's role is to move great distances over the battlefield in order to attack enemy spellcasters as soon as possible);

    2. a level 10 Barbarian / level 10 Fighter is susceptible to sneak attacks from level 14 (or higher) enemy rogues, whereas creating a level 16 Barbarian / level 4 Fighter is probably the most optimized way to play a Barbarian in The Circle of Eight Modpack NC (because such a character is immune to sneak attacks from enemy rogues who are up to level 19, and as far as I am aware, the highest level enemy rogue in the game is the slave trader Sharar-be-L'ial who is a level 18 rogue);

    3. a level 20 Barbarian would have the most Hit Points in the game (and Hit Points are very important for Barbarians because they tend to have poor Armour Classes (due to wearing light armour and while raging).

    Anyway, I'd just like to reinterate that D&D is all about "playing the characters that you want to play", and wish you all happy gaming.

    P.S. a level 19 Barbarian is supposed to have Damage Reduction 5/-. Does anybody know whether a Barbarian's Damage Reduction continues to improve beyond level 10 in this computer game? I've never played a Barbarian in this computer game before so I have absolutely no idea which abilities a Barbarian gets beyond level 10 (if any) in this computer game.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  2. Major_Blackhart

    Major_Blackhart Member

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    Oh, I don't think it's off topic. Having a barbarian that can ascend to level 20 with DnD 3.5 abilities is definitely something I'd like to see.
    Also, +5 weapons and Vorpal stuff as well would be nasty.
    Bam!

    Edit:
    Gazra, you've never played barbarian in co8 modpack? In Co8, barbarian if I recall correctly is best usable as a mid-tier character and transitioning out afterwards because they never edited any of the classes abilities past level 10, because it requires a Dll editor that they no longer have. I think anyway. That's why in the Co8 mod in ToEE, barbarian is a bridge player, bridging to another class. If I recall, and it's been a while, they get no Greater Rage or Mighty Rage, or even additional damage reduction (I think anyway) in ToEE Co8.
    That's why this is a wish list. Barbarian normally is great in dnd and pathfinder, but in this game with the Co8 mod, he's limited.
     
  3. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    Actually, I believe Mithril Plate counts as medium armor, so the Barbarian retains his +10 feet movement. It's just starting from a base of 20 vice 30.
     
  4. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    I've never had a barbarian or a monk or a ranger or a paladin in my party while playing the Circle of Eight Modpack. I was planning to play my first evil party in this playthrough of the latest Co8 modpack NC, where I had planned to have both the NPC Turuko (a monk) and the NPC Kobort (a barbarian/fighter) in my party, but Gaear wanted me to test 'The War of the Golden Skull: Defender' quest combats for jerkstop in Co8 7.5.0 NC, so I'm playing yet another good party in this playthrough. The good things that have come out of doing this "good" run are that I discovered that the NPC Burne leaves your party when you discover the Orb of Golden Death, and that the NPC Rufus leaves your party once you have discovered the existence of Zuggtmoy. I'll play an evil party on my next run.

    I wish that there was a recruitable NPC ranger and a recruitable NPC paladin in the game. It astounds me that there are SO many recruitable NPCs in this computer game and not one of them is a ranger or a paladin! Elmo was a ranger in the original pencil & paper 1st edition AD&D role-playing module, but for some reason Troika Games decided to make him a fighter in this computer game. Baffling!

    I've been thinking about it, and I now agree with Major_Blackhart that the best Barbarian character to play in the Co8 modpack NC is a level 10 Barbarian / level 10 Fighter because such a character is immune to sneak attacks from every enemy rogue in the game except for the slave trader rogue Sharar-be-L'ial (that's not such a big deal, and all of the fighter bonus feats and Greater Weapon Focus more than make up for that). Even Smigmal Redhand is only a level 13 rogue.
    I do know for a fact that high level Barbarians ARE immune to sneak attacks in the Circle of Eight Modpack, because my single class rogue could not sneak attack the slave trader barbarian.

    You are 100% right, Daryk. Thank you for correcting me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  5. grimdark

    grimdark Member

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    Only 3 more things are left to make the game perfect, at least for me...

    I. Point buy system should be 28 and not 25 by default. "elite array" or not, 25 is still slightly less than necessary. I know that u can use random roll, but I like min/maxing and I bet I'm not the only one.

    II. There should be a quest or a vendor giving players some +2 tomes with inherent bonus which they can use to augment their stats. It also should be possible to make +5 tomes with Craft Wondrous Item.

    III. Finally there should be an option (using front-end menu maybe?) to choose to start the game at level 4. Why? Because the game is full of really nasty RNG in the beginning. You can kill 4 ettins during the random encounter as a level 2 party and then wipe to some wimpy skeletons (true story, lol). Not really balanced or fair is it? You shouldn't reload over and over, so you randomly succeed. Many role-playing people start their games at that level anyway. This is the best way to still play according to the rules of the game, without succumbing to the RNG gods (or devils). In TOEE there is no benign GM who would protect the players from an encounter going horribly wrong. Starting at level 4 will alleviate that issue :) Besides, I don't think it would have any negative effect on the rest of the game. In my games Elmo quickly stops being a powerhouse around level 5 or 6. Simply make it so that after starting the game u immediately get enough xp to level to 4th level.

    Well that's all... u really did great job modding TOEE, I hope my input will give you guys some food for thought at the very least :)
     
  6. dale5351

    dale5351 Established Member

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    Two minor things that I think would be nice improvements:

    Improve the helm of reading magic so that it will identify a group of items at one time -- perhaps selecting them by CTRL-click. It is a bit of a pain to have to go through the radial menu to identify each and every potion of cure light wounds you just picked up from the bugbears.

    In addition, create a similar item for identify and let it operate in the same way. The wand of identify is a very nice item, but it is the same sort of boredom to have to go through all the steps for each item you want to identify.
     
  7. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

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    Agree with Dale, it would be nice to be able to shift-click or ctrl-click multiple items when shopping or casting identifying magic.
    Would it be possible to make the point buy system adjustable via the Front End?

    Gazra- I initially planned to play Ronald through as a Ranger, then realised he'd make a good monk and switched to that instead.
    My experience of rangers in 3rd Ed is limited to cRPGs where I think they are somewhat underpowered- magic is pretty weak and they suffer cf fighters and barbarians for HP. TWF isn't a great advantage cf using a two-handed weapon in my humble opinion, and fighters can use their feats with more versatilty.
    Perhaps in PnP more subtle application of animal companions, implementation of skills and ability to make more genuine choices (like going after racial enemies, for instance) in terms of campaign direction alter the balance a bit?
     
  8. dale5351

    dale5351 Established Member

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    For my second play through, I added a ranger and a druid to my previous party of fighter, rogue, cleric, sorcerer, and wizard. So far, I am also disappointed with my ranger. Since my style is focused on ranged weapons, I had thought he would fit right in. But part way through (level 9) he is not doing nearly as well as my fighter -- and his spells are pretty useless most of the time.

    OTOH, I am coming to like that druid. He has got some serious crowd control spells -- such as stone spikes. Most enemy never make it through them. The rest of my characters just sit there and laugh.

    I've not yet played around with his shape changing ability though.
     
  9. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    Rangers realy pay off in random encounters, at least if they have good spot and survival. I usually multi-class my rangers with fighter to round out their feats. Now that I think about it, I multi-class all my characters with fighter for that reason.
     
  10. Oleg Ben Loleg

    Oleg Ben Loleg Established Member Supporter

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    Give your Druid the Feat: Natural Spell (can cast spells while in a wild shape) and create: Vestment of shapechange (if I remenmber that one correctly). Now you cann turn into a hillgiant with spellcasting abilities. Really horrific character that way.
     
  11. dale5351

    dale5351 Established Member

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    Thanks Oleg -- that sounds good, I'll try that.
     
  12. Gehennis

    Gehennis Established Member

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    I've used rangers a few times and the thing with them is to focus on anything archery related as far as feats and to give them the best bows you can buy (or craft). Also don't forget their Favored Enemy bonuses but make sure you choose wisely as some monster types are far more prevalent than others (I tend to pick humans, goblinoids and giants above any others). As far as their spell selection Entangle and Longstrider are most likely the most useful 1st lvl ones while Cure Light Wounds, Spike Growth and Protection from Energy wold be the most used 2nd lvl ones. If you like to cast Enlarge Person however have your ranger learn Cat's Grace- the +4 Dex will help negate the penalty Enlarge causes and it frees up a spell slot slot your wizard.
     
  13. silo25

    silo25 Established Member

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    I would like to see higher level content because once you get the +4 rewarded weapons, there is not anyplace to test them

    DO not get me wrong the game is great and i've played it since the circle added to it, but i would like to use my crafted sword of greatness i just made on something (by the time you can craft a weapon with all the bells the game is about over
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  14. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    I was doing well in this combat and actually defeated all of the opponents without any of my party's characters dying, but Zaxis (or was it Furnok?) failed about 6 of his saves against poison and died the instant that combat mode ended! Conclusion: Don't cast Cloudkill during the 'Monster Mash' combat unless you want to face endless summoned monsters and get poisoned a lot! :drunk:
     

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    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  15. Legless

    Legless Established Member

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    I would love to see archers, rangers that choose the archery specialization and crossbowmen actually being capable of not only hitting their targets but also doing worthwhile damage with normal non enhanced/magical equipment, especially at low level. This would make a rogue something more than a safe opener early on.
    It has improved a lot when all the specialisations like far shot precise shot pointblank shot with weapon specialization and focus are added but where a fighter can do huge ammount of damage in comparison, a bow still only does minimal damage if and when he/she/it actually hits their target
     
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