What weapon is what

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Shiningted, Nov 24, 2006.

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  1. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    oh yeah, I wasn't quite sure which one you were refuring to so I picked one and went with it.

    that axe with a spike on the bottom of it would work well as a double weapon tho.
     
  2. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Historically I have no idea what Excalibur was meant to be, and have never used it in-game, but it certainly calls itself a longsword. But then it is also 2-handed and large-sized, for what its worth. As with the warhammer issue above, it seems a single proficiency can cover both one and two handed weapons.
    If I learnt nothing else from my Irish heritage, its that you make shillelaghs out of the root branches :)
     
  3. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    You and I are one on that one. Only double weapons allowed in my PNP games are the urgosh and the quarterstaff. (Though I'm tempted to change the quarterstaff into a real quarterstaff [ie big pole you hold like a spear and whack people with when they try to close. The name comes from the fact you would hold your lead hand about a quarter of the way up the weapon] and call the existing quarterstaff a bo.) Everything else is just as dangerous (if not more so) to the wielder as it is to the enemy.
     
  4. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    I totally agree with that as well. Western stick fighting was totally different from eastern.

    btw - a bit off topic, what stats would you give a katana with a 3' handle?

    [EDIT] there is also 1 weapon in oriental adventures - its called a double scimitar - a curved blade at either end of a 5 or 6' pole. I made a wooden one and it works very similarly to a naginata, atho there are some moves you can't do, you can stand in an offencive and defencive stance at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2006
  5. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    Something like a nagamaki? I'm not really familiar with how they were used. Off the top of my head, I'd probably stat it like a falchion (the D&D kind that's more like a great scimitar, not the historical kind). It's two-handed, but because of your (assumed) hand placement, you don't really have the intertia you'd get from a greatsword/nodachi, so it would do less damage. However, it does allow for better control than a nodachi, so you're more likely to score a hit that counts (higher critical range).

    Of course, the real weapon could function in a completely different way than I'm envisioning here, in which case disregard all that. :)

    I can see that. And the longer pole (than the two-bladed sword) means you're less likely to inadvertantly catch a limb with the other blade after a solid parry. Though this is all conjecture on my part. My polearm-fighting ability is pretty much limited to "lop the guy's legs off when he tries to close the distance".
     
  6. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    thats what I'm taking about. In OA its stats are 2d4 x3 slashing a bastard sword or katana is 1d10 19-20×2 slashing, now why would making a longer handle reduce the damage and increase the crit multiplyer?

    btw dnd falchions are all wrong, in RL they're like a kind of slashing short sword. in dnd they are a chinese sword, the dadao
     
  7. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    Best guess? They looked at the standard polearms, said we have a 2d4 x3 polearm in D&D and don't have its equivalent in OA, so we'll just slap those stats on a nagamaki.

    Ideally, you want to make different weapons be distinct stat-wise from other weapons. Though 2d4 x3 crit makes it inferior to the katana, which does slightly more damage and can be used one-handed with a feat. That's why I was thinking falchion stats of 2d4 damage, but the a 18-20 crit range. I've never used or seen a nagamaki in use, so again, I'm just making guesses here. What effect does the longer handle have on the weapon, beyond the obvious increased leverage and lowering of the balance point?
    I was aware, which is why I was specifying the D&D version vs. real weapon. Didn't know about the dadao though, which looks pretty much perfect for the D&D falchion, as you said.

    At 3'+ in length, I'd actually consider the falchion closer to the D&D long sword (which in itself is incorrect nomeclature. An actual European long sword was about 4' long with a hilt long enough for two-hands. Very similar to the bastard sword. What D&D calls a long sword was commonly just called a sword, though differences in period and fighting style sometimes gave them different names), though since the emphasis is on chopping, I'd be inclined to give it battleaxe stats. (1d8, x3 critical).
     
  8. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    So if a falchion is a short sword, what is the big f*cker that dudes carry in Aladdin movies? "Hassan chop!"

    O damn, now you've got me discussing this... what I meant to say was, what is special about the Orc double axe? Just a funky looking double-bladed axe? A head at each end? The current one in game is just a single-bladed thing.
     
  9. maggit

    maggit Zombie RipTorn Wonka

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    Unfortunately its a double ended axe. -_-
    Both sides do 1d8 damage with a x3 crit.
    I doubt it will ever work properly here since
    I haven't seen any double edged weapons
    in ToEE. I suggest we either get rid of it
    and make it a great axe (the one from Crunch's
    mod) or make a double ended model with a
    single attack roll... BTW I'm looking for the
    picture you asked. ;) Oh, another thing
    by the way, the gnome hooked hammer
    should also be treated as a two-handed
    and double edged weapon and yet it has no
    additional attacks. :/
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2006
  10. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    That would be a great scimitar.

    As maggit says, it's a pole with an axe blade at each end. Again, not so much with the sense-making.
     
  11. maggit

    maggit Zombie RipTorn Wonka

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    I told Ted to make it a two handed
    battleaxe just like the one by Crunch,
    however I was looking for animations
    which would fit a double edged axe and
    found glaive quite interresting. If someone
    would remodel it a bit, we could have at
    least something that looks like the original.
    On the other hand I agree with Kalshane, most
    double edged weapons are (or would be) quite
    useless. ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2006
  12. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Well, I seem to have a vague memory of a useful double-headed weapon... what about the one Sandy uses in Monkey? Doesn't that have a blade of some sort on each end? A fixed blade going on each end isn't too likely to whack its own weilder, if the pole is long enough.

    More importantly, any ideas about what to do with the Orc Double Axe? Just make it a two-bladed axe as Maggit suggested? (I asked him to look into this and appreciate his feedback: this also strikes me as the most probable way we could do this, though if it is meant to be a two-headed weapon then a one headed / 2 bladed weapon is a pretty poor alternative). Should we just forget it as unworkable? Other options?

    O yeah, here is Sandy's weapon if I am not mistaken.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 24, 2006
  13. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    in my ever so humble opinion we should leave it out
     
  14. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    I'm with Cujo on this. Double-weapons, as of now, don't work. Plus, most of them are lame. :)

    If someone wants to take the time to make them work, then we can add them back in for folks that like that sort of thing, but in the meantime it seems pointless to me to have a bunch of weapons in the game that don't work like they should. (The quarterstaff is an exception because it doesn't require an extra feat to use and any TWFer is better off using a pair of different weapons anyway, so the lack of a double-ended strike doesn't hurt it that much.)
     
  15. Cuchulainn

    Cuchulainn Windmill Tilter

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    Yeah I'm with Cujo and Kalshane. I definintely don't see the point of having weapons that don't function correctly, and I personaly don't see the point of all the work in getting them to work. Seems like our efforts could be better spent in other areas. Just my opinion of course, not trying to tell others how to spend their time.

    Cuchulainn.
     
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