Using new tiles for a map

Discussion in 'Maps, Textures, and Graphics' started by pogothemonkey0, Jan 31, 2008.

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  1. pogothemonkey0

    pogothemonkey0 Member

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    Can someone direct me to a good guide on how to, using new tile images, create a new map?

    I have the tiled images, I just cant get the game to recognize that it needs to load them. I copied another area and, using a guide, made a duplicate of it. I then replaced the ground meshes (mod\art\ground\area) but it still doesn't work. I imagine there is some file that is linked with my new area that still reflects the original and loads the same ground meshes as the original.

    I am making Irenicus' Dungeon in ToEE btw :mrhappy:
     
  2. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    To add new maps, you need to first make your big map jpg, make it large, you can always shrink to fit later (but if you make it small, expanding it will make it look low res) there is a thread aroundhere that explainsa fewtricks tomake the map look cool, a search for "post production" should do the trick.

    To add the map to the game, first you need to split it. so get microsoft.net 2.0 if you don't already (if you use ToEEFE, you already have it), now download ToEEWB (world builder) and fire it up. there is a utility in there to split the map into little chunks.

    Then follow Jota's instructions to add the map to the game as an independant map. When that is done you can load up the game and use the teleport console command to get there.

    There are a bunch of tutorial about adding door icons and linking them to other areas in Ted's tutorials, there is a PDF filewith all that info around here somewhere, a search should turn that up too.
     
  3. pogothemonkey0

    pogothemonkey0 Member

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    Thanks, but I am not sure you answered my question...

    I have already split my big (~4000 sq pixels) map with the World Builder and have a ton of tiles. My problem is, even when I get rid of the old tiles and replace them with the new dungeon tiles, the game still loads the old ones.

    If you are talking about the "Tutorial: How to make a new Map" by Jota, I could not find anything about new or altered tiles. I followed his instructions to the T when making the new area, but it is still just a duplicate of the original. His guide does not mention new tiles.

    As for getting to the area, I modded temple.dll so that you spawn in the area when you make a new game.

    I will look for the pdf though.

    Also, since I ripped Irenicus' Dungeon directly from BG2, wont I need to scale it up so that the sizing is proportional? BG2 tiles are 64x64 and ToEE Tiles are 256x256 (right?); does that mean I need to scale the huge image up by 4x? I know that will make it pixelated, but the alternative is really freakin' tiny.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  4. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I'm not entirely sure that I know what's going on, would yoube able to join me in the IRC room to explain? There is a link in the chat menu near the top of the page, (Java chat will do, if you don't have mIRC or Trillian).
     
  5. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    I'd wonder whether the jpgs created by ToEEWB are exactly the same name, or whether he maybe didn't have the little txt file that is necessary to create the correct amount and name them properly.

    If the jpgs he made are named 0000001.jpg etc, then he was missing the txt file.
     
  6. pogothemonkey0

    pogothemonkey0 Member

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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  7. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Then it worked :)

    But seriously, what you want to do is take an existing map, recombine it with ToEEWB, paste your new map over the recombined one in Photoshop (or where-ever) then split it again without changing the file's name. When it recombines, ToEEWB creates a txt file (same name as jpg) that tells it what size the map is (how many by how many - 6 x 5, for instance). Without that text file it won't work properly and you'll get what you see there.
     
  8. pogothemonkey0

    pogothemonkey0 Member

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    Thanks, I did that and got the map sized right so that it doesnt tile funny.

    I would like to know how the tiling system works though. I can tell there is some grid system (eg. 001D is the row, 001B is the column), but I dont know the full mechanics of it. Does this have any bearing on the maximum map size? The highest I have seen are in Nulb, the Temple, and Hommlet. Apparently, Hommlet and Temple are hardcoded to be exceptions to the maximum file size, but what about Nulb?

    From what I can tell -and correct me if I am wrong-, the above-average size is 3072x3328. Maps with this size have, in common, the same starting point of 001D001B. I know for sure I can overwrite the old map (which is of this size) with a new file and have it work, but that limits it to this size. I would like to go as high as I can so that I dont have to split the original map(19,712x14,848 according to ToEE's scale) too much. If I can split the areas perfectly (cut out all blank space), I may be able to fit it in 15 maps of 3072x3328 size. If I can use a bigger map (Ruins of the Moathouse, 4096x3328, starts at 001D001A) as the base, I may be able to do it with less maps. If I can use a map of Nulb's size (7680x5376), that would be even better. Unfortunately, I imagine that Nulb is also an exception so I cant use it (please confirm/deny this).

    Another problem I have run into is that the ToEEWB cant handle recombining files that are too big (it wont work on things at least greater than 5120x3840). I use the recombiner to tell if my tiles are messed up, so I wont be able to test anything larger than that size. For all I know, the limit is smaller and I wont be able to test something of The Ruins of the Moathouse's size.

    I understand that others before me have had trouble with map sizes (something about Hickory Branch?); could I have details about what they found? I now know that maps need to be divisible by 256 pixels both in width and height (something that should be immediately obvious, yet stumped me for a while), but the grid system is still confusing to me. Larger maps seem to start at lower values of the grid, making me believe maps could be made larger if one could lower where ToEE starts reading tiles from.

    As I told Allyx, I am a very literal person, so as descriptive as possible would be nice.

    Also, I often come off as rude. If I am being too demanding, my bad, I really appreciate the help.

    EDIT: can someone help me with the scale difference between BG2 and ToEE? BG2 tiles are 64x64 px. ToEE tiles are 256x256 px. That means I need to expand each tile from BG2 by 4x just to get the scale to match, right?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  9. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    actuallly if it were devisable by 1024 pixels each way it'd be even better for you when making the mini maps.

    as for the scale, I would suggest trial and error until it looked right. :scratchhe
     
  10. pogothemonkey0

    pogothemonkey0 Member

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    Yeah that is what I am trying to do. Unfortunately, I cant seem to get the maps working.

    I am trying to use Ruins of the Moathouse as the base for my new map. I copied all the necessary files and made all the necessary changes (I think...), but when the game loads, it goes black. I go through character selection, hit go, and it loads a totally black screen (no HUD). Any ideas as to why this happened?
     
  11. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Could be your starting position was away from the art of the map? try using the eleport command to move your party around, 500,500 is normally near the middle of most maps, you could also try altering the incriments you teleport by, by +/- 50 to see if you can find the drawn bit of the map?
     
  12. pogothemonkey0

    pogothemonkey0 Member

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    I used the same spawn point as the original, there should be no issue.

    I am not sure if this is very relevant, but I found something interesting that I didnt know.

    The entries in MapLimits.mes look like this {5020}{1020,-12292,-1020,-14588}.
    The first entry in the map name as in MapList.mes, but the second number looks interesting. It seems that, the larger this number is, the bigger the map. Hommlet has the largest 8180, The Dungeon-Level whatevers are in the 3000-4000 range, and the majority of them are about 1000-2000. I cant think of what the other three numbers mean, but maybe the will shed some light on the map size limit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  13. krunch

    krunch moving on in life

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    my 2 cents on the topic..

    Yah, for adding a map, everywhere off the map is a deep, dark pitch black. That is why we sector a map - mark the borders of a map and make the dark pitch black areas off the map unavailable where parties teleport to a place on a map (not a deep, dark pitch black part of it). You have to get the size (dimensions) right. When adding a new large map, one trick is to crop a map in a proggie like photoshop. You can fit the new map in an area the proper size of an existing map for you to get the size right (dimensions).

    yah, dimensions

    This is a trick [a cheat] to get the right size and you would use the maplimits of an existing map.

    [EDIT]
    For all about the ins-and-outs, read THIS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2008
  14. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Ask all the questions you like, Pogo, we are happy to help.

    Personally I just recombine old maps and paste new ones over the top of them. As for the limits, I tend to do things by trial and error (or sidestep them all together - I never did get around to adding maplimits to many of the KotB maps). So I can't help much with the technical side.

    I would advise, though, if ToEEWB can't handle what you are throwing at it, try a more powerful PC. Ag did mention the Hommlet map would need a beefy computer to handle it.
     
  15. pogothemonkey0

    pogothemonkey0 Member

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    I think my computer is up to the task. 7800GTX and a 3.2 dual core processor shouldnt give me trouble.

    I think my problems were that the file sizes were not divisible by 256 and WB was having trouble getting the tiles right because of it.

    I got my map in game and working by the way. I didnt have to scale the tiles up either, so the map isnt as big as I predicted (I was way off). I have the whole dungeon across 2 maps and it works fine in-game. I deleted all map info for each though, so there is no sector info.

    How exactly do I add sectors? Is there a guide? I know WB has a tab for it, but it isnt really clear on how to work it.

    Also, how do I get the coordinates for what is under my mouse? In-game, I want to find out where to start the map from. I need a very specific location and trial-and-error would be a pain; is there a command?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2008
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