Spider Web

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by anatoliy, Jul 24, 2019.

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  1. anatoliy

    anatoliy Established Member

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    I was always wondering why Troika decided to go with Spider implementation of Web using their own kind of Web spell. If you look at the actual Spider extraordinary ability of Web, it is very similar to Net weapon, and only works on one person.

    MM288
    PHB 119
    I saw many new spells were created, but this one not. Why?

    In any case I tried to create one, and it work (well almost):
    Code:
    from toee import *
    
    def OnBeginSpellCast( spell ):
        print "Spider Net OnBeginSpellCast"
        print "spell.target_list=", spell.target_list
        print "spell.caster=", spell.caster, " caster.level= ", spell.caster_level
        game.particles( "sp-evocation-conjure", spell.caster )
    
    def OnSpellEffect( spell ):
        print "Spider Net OnSpellEffect"
    
    def OnBeginRound( spell ):
        print "Spider Net OnBeginRound"
    
    def OnBeginProjectile( spell, projectile, index_of_target ):
        print "Spider Net OnBeginProjectile"
    
        projectile.obj_set_int( obj_f_projectile_part_sys_id, game.particles( 'sp-Ray of Frost', projectile ) )
    
    def OnEndProjectile( spell, projectile, index_of_target ):
        print "Spider Net OnEndProjectile"
        target_item = spell.target_list[0]
        hit_val = spell.caster.perform_touch_attack( target_item.obj )
        #print("hit_val: " + str(hit_val))
        if (hit_val & D20CAF_HIT):
            # hit
            #game.particles( 'sp-Web', target_item.obj )
            target_item.obj.condition_add_with_args( 'sp-Entangle On', spell.id, 10, 0 )
            target_item.partsys_id = game.particles( 'sp-Ray of Enfeeblement-Hit', target_item.obj )
            spell.caster.obj_set_int(obj_f_critter_strategy, 0)
        else:
            # missed
            target_item.obj.float_mesfile_line( 'mes\\spell.mes', 30007 )
            game.particles( 'Fizzle', target_item.obj )
    
        spell.target_list.remove_target( target_item.obj )
        spell.spell_end( spell.id )
    
    def OnEndSpellCast( spell ):
        print "Spider Net OnEndSpellCast"
    Still things to do:
    * Find appropriate Net projectile particles. Help is appreciated.
    * Find appropriate Netted particles. Help is appreciated.
    * Create new condition of "netted" instead of 'sp-Entangle On' as it does not suit completely.

    "Netted" condition. Or entangled2, does not matter. It should:
    * Restrict movement to half speed;
    * Penalty on Attack;
    * Penalty on Dex;
    * Enforce spell Concentration DC 15 check;
    * Allow Break Free with custom (Spider will chose) DC;
    * No dispell (usual entangle could be);
     
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  2. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    V2Brute is the particle editor for ToEE, if you can figure out how it works, you could make the particles you require... there should be a download link on the forum somewhere if you don't already have it. Adding new conditions would need to be done through Temple+, perhaps @Sitra Achara can help you out there.
     
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  3. anatoliy

    anatoliy Established Member

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    Sitra already helped me a lot. And we briefly discussed this particular matter.

    Plus I already created one condition "Monster Melee Poison Ex", which is copy of original Monster Melee Poison. It can be configured in arg2 to filter out on which attack it should work. For example Scorpion, monster that I created should only have poison during it's third attack. Which has low attack bonus.

    Particles are the problem. I'm not eager to edit new ones. Perhaps some one know which could be used for flying net projectile; and for webbed creature one.
     
  4. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    If you are looking for a stock particle to just use from the original available set, I'd suggest searing light for the projectile, and the web entangled particle for stuck targets.
     
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  5. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    That reminds me, don't forget the Netted condition should respond to fire damage :)
     
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  6. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    @anatoliy - I spent literally years trying, on and off, to get some sort of personal 'entangled' or webbed condition going as part of my endless attempts to make the Tanglefoot bag a reality, and never got it to work perfectly. I think you are quite wise in concluding that it needs a new condition. If you do get it going, please feel free to add it to Item 12849 (the Tanglefoot bag) and make an old man's dreams a reality.
     
  7. anatoliy

    anatoliy Established Member

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    Different kinds of Web
    There are different kinds of Web available in RAW:
    • Net Weapon
    • Spider Net – Web (ex) active ability of Spiders
    • Spider Web – Web (ex) passive ability of Spiders
    • Web Spell
    All of them provide Entangle condition, with parameters: Break DC, Escape DC. I also conclude, there should be Immobilized condition (cannot move).

    ENTANGLED
    An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell.
    Break Free or Escape Artist check to remove the condition.

    IMMOBILIZED
    From Tome of Magic (p 140) - "An immobilized creature can attack and cast spells normally, but it cannot move from the square or squares that it is in. This condition does not prevent a creature from defending itself, nor does it cause a creature to lose its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class."
    Cannot move. Break Free or Escape Artist check to remove the condition. Web Spell only, see below.

    Net Weapon

    Ranged touch attack against one target, within 10 ft of net like strands (projectile), only vs one size larger. On hit – Entangle condition. Stays until removed by Break Free (DC – 25), Escape Artist (DC – 20) or Combat End.

    Spider Net

    Ranged touch attack against one target, within 50 ft (increment 10 ft) of net like strands (projectile), only vs one size larger. On hit – Entangle condition. Stays until removed by Break Free (see pic), Escape Artist (see pic) or Combat End.
    Spider can spit it 8 times per day as extraordinary ability. The Web cannot be dispelled.

    Spider Web

    MM 1 (p. 289) – “Web-spinners often create sheets of sticky webbing from 5 to 60 feet square, depending on the size of the spider. They usually position these sheets to snare flying creatures but can also try to trap prey on the ground. Approaching creatures must succeed on a DC 20 Spot check to notice a web; otherwise they stumble into it and become trapped as though by a successful web attack.”
    It is clearly an ability of Spiders, which do it as a Trap in nature. There is no Reflex save, just DC 20 Spot check, if not, then immediately Entangled. I’d say moving on this sheet will also provide Entangle automatically. Stays until removed by Break Free (see pic), Escape Artist (see pic), Combat End or moving out of the Area.

    Area (diameter) of this Web Trap is not specified exactly by the text. I concluded in the Table (pic) intuitively, based on one-size larger rule.
    Code:
    Size        EA DC    Break DC   HP    Area (ft)
    Tiny        10        14         2     5
    Small       10        14         4     5
    Medium      12        16         6    10
    Large       13        17        12    15
    Huge        16        20        14    20
    Gargantuan  20        24        16    30
    Colossal    28        32        18    60
    

    Web Spell

    Web spell essentially is a blob of web strands, not sheet, not bunch of ropes. It is conjured in picked center point then expanded as a sphere from it to 20-ft radius, until obstacle. The blob must anchor between two opposed points. It is not transparent – “If you have at least 5 feet of web between you and an opponent, it provides cover. If you have at least 20 feet of web between you, it provides total cover”. If it failed to anchor – it will disappear.

    Initially all creatures must do Reflex save vs Spell DC, on failure they become not just Entangled, but Immobilized too (cannot move). Break Free (DC 20) and Escape Artist (DC 25) checks works a bit different. Check result must be noted, then if exceeds DC it will remove Immobilized along with Entangled condition, so Character can move. As for the length of movement – “The creature moves 5 feet for each full 5 points by which the check result exceeds 10”.

    Web Spell Area

    This one is not specified exactly in RAW, more like my conclusion.
    • In typical dungeon - 20 ft radius cylinder
    • In open, between opposed walls - 20 ft radius cylinder.
    • In open, between columns - 20 ft height wall (2 ft avg or more, up to DM).
    • Otherwise in open it should not work.
    Web spell should never operate as Spider Web sheet on the ground.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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