Salamanders and Giants and Gnolls (Oh My!)

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Kalshane, Nov 15, 2005.

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  1. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    Woo! Going to give this thing a whirl tonight. Thanks for all your hard work on this, CB. I didn't realize when I set out to do this that I'd end up making so much work for others.
     
  2. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    I'm not quite sure if my protos is completely up to date with the latest from Darmagon, but I think it is.

    The work on this was more tedious and mind numbing than hard, but Agetian's additions to WB helped a lot, and the project also helped improve WB, so the benefits are two-fold.
     
  3. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    @C-blue, I file compared your new fixes in with my game, the warp wood stuff in utilities.py is missing from your files, I've also added my cosmetic fixes - a few item price fixes, swapped out the temple robe skins for magical robes in favour of plain coloured robes, those changes are already in the Verbobonc update for those who have it.

    [EDIT] Files attached below, I've added the new skins for the magical robes. BOTH FILES MUST BE USED.

    [EDIT by Cerulean the Blue] These files have now been incorporated into the original MOB Fixes download (post 338) posted above.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2006
  4. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    I don't see how the warp wood stuff in utilities.py could be missing in my files, since utilities.py is not in those files to begin with. I didn't touch utilities.py in the MOB fixes. Are you sure you have the right one?

    As for the other stuff, I knew it wasn't up to date with all your changes. I haven't downloaded the latest Verbo-mod. Thanks for throwing it in. I will add it to the package soon.

    [EDIT] Allyx's files have now been incorporated into the MOB Fixes download above (post 338), except for the utilities.py file, which is part of Darmagon's New Spells.

    Also, I've fixed the Familiar Death script so that it now properly removes xp rather than CON upon the familiar's death. This has also been incorporated into the above MOB Fixes download, or, if you don't want to re-download you can find just those changes in the file below. YOU WANT THESE FILES AS THE ORIGINALS DID NOT WORK CORRECTLY.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2006
  5. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    Another update to the Summonable Familiars stuff. With these files the familiar doesn't disappear after a set time (well it will, but the set time is something like 680 years). Instead, when you want the familiar to go back into your pack, you talk to it and tell it to do so.

    Oh, and you always summon them from the inventory radial menu now.

    When you put the familiar back in your pack it will not heal, but it will remove all spell effects/poison/disease from it. When you call forth the familiar once again, it will still have any damage it had when you put it away, but it will gain hp for any increase in it's masters level while it was in the pack.

    [EDIT] D'oh! I forgot the proto.tab file. It's the base one so far for 4.1.0 and incorporates Kalshane's fixes. If you downloaded this before 12:33 am GMT on 4/4/2006 you should redownload this.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 4, 2006
  6. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    If I may be allowed a quick bit of feedback, I am having wild discrepancies with the moathouse gnolls, as the below pic will show. I know u can roll 4 d8's and get a result anywhere from 4-32, but I seem to be getting the full range here! And these gnolls according to the module should have had between 7-14 hps, or 2d8+2 (11 hp) according to the 3.5 SRD. I can understand gnolls in the Temple maybe having several character levels, but these are going to be facing 2nd level characters - 30+ hp? Note none of the 3 pictured here is the leader. Hope I'm not out of line bringing this up.

    [Edit] Do barbarian rages give that many extra HP?
     

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  7. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    My groups are usually at about level 4 by that point Ted, but then I do milk Hommlet for all the XP I can get from quests before heading out to the moathouse, and take the secret door to tackle the ghouls, and giant crayfish, then go back to take out Lubash before taking on the Gnolls and Bugbears, then I take out Lareth & co last. Also don't forget the constitution bonus for raging barbarians, thats an extra +2HP per level (+8HP for 4 HD).
     
  8. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Actually I dunno why I said the 4-32 thing, other than it was vaguely the range the hp fell in. But that 39hp-and-still-standing gnoll bothers me: thats nearly as tough as Lubash (with the additional strength from the rage), tougher than say any of Lareth's guards: a party without Elmo will either have to web / entangle them, or get mowed down. We've already established the gnolls are the bottom of the food chain in this group, if they were all Ogre-tough they would probably be running the place.
     
  9. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Can the HP simply be "set" to whatever you wish? They're supposed to be under the bugbears in the pecking order around the 'house, and are jealous rivals as a result (k-9 pride & all that). I'd hate to see just how tough the bugbears are given this information.
     
  10. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Certainly, the HP can be set in the mob files to whatever you want, the set HP will be adjusted in game accoedring to thier constitution modifier. The default value if unset and the creature has 1 class level is 10 (Pishella had 10 (base HP and 1d4 hit dice + con bonus), Robin graves from KotB had 9HP (10 base - 1 con bonus for his 8 constitution), until I realised this fact and corrected the issue.
     
  11. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Well there should still be a random element for replayability, I don't expect every gnoll to match the module, and don't mind them being a bit tougher. But having them ranging from 5-40hp is taking the random thing a bit far (imho). And the thing is, they ARE a bit tougher than the bugbears, who do not seem to be any different (not that Kalshane and Blue haven't reworked them effectively, but that was always a tough encounter for low level parties and doesn't seem any worse).
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2006
  12. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    Sorry for the slow response. This this first time all week I've been able to read through the forum without it either constantly crashing IE or the site going down.

    I didn't change the levels for any of the gnolls. All I did was make sure they were statted correctly. Quite a few of them have a level in Barbarian. Those that did were assigned the elite array (15,14,13,12,10,8) for their stats, as per the rules. (Part of the CR increase for having character levels comes from having better than default stats.) Which means those Barbarian gnolls have a Con of 16 (14, +2 for being a gnoll), which goes up to 20 when they rage. So when raging they should have 12 (for 1st level of Barbarian, which is maxed) +2d8 (gnoll hit dice) + 15 (from Con) hitpoints, for a range of 29 to 43 hp.

    The regular old gnolls are going to range from 4 and 18 HP with their lower Con, lack of rage and lack of Barbarian level.

    Of course, this is all from memory. I'd have to check the protos to be sure that this is the case.
     
  13. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    How many of them are like this? It'd be ok for maybe a couple or three, but not more. The character class upgrade should be reserved for exceptional individuals. Not to say that this isn't or anything, but it seems to complicate an unsophisticated group unnecessarily.

    FWIW, this is one reason why I hate edition 3.5. Gnolls having barbarian skills is like gnome paladins. Blech.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2006
  14. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    I don't know how many off-hand. There's only two entries in the protos for Gnolls with class levels (in addition to the Gnoll leader) out of 9 listed. I don't know which ones are spawned in that encounter. I seem to recall there are only 2 or 3 raging gnolls out of the dozen or so you fight.

    I'm the opposite of you when it comes to 3.5. I think it's incredibly logical that intelligent, sentient, tool-using creatures would be able to increase their skill in the same way that humans and the like can.
     
  15. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    That makes you the Anti-Spike...

    Of course, it makes perfect sense, it just doesn't suit my tastes. Call it something else, make it slighty different (in a way that is specifically suited to each race) and I'da probably been less likely to complain in the first place.

    Probably.

    :shrug:
     
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