Ranged Combat, masterwork bows

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by EvilCatEars, Mar 27, 2011.

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  1. EvilCatEars

    EvilCatEars Member

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    Well, I thought about getting dip in game again (my first run, was kind of speed run and missed lot of things). So I'm thinkinking about making rouge/fighter dualclass for my team, specialising him for ranged combat. So I have run into couple of problems:


    1. Where do you find masterwork/enchanted longbows/shortbows?

    Killing hill giant quest gives you acces to masterwork things but no bows.

    Killing spiders in Deklo Groove, I think, was supposed to give acces to masterwork wood items, but after finishing that quest and waiting a day, there are no masterworks items available. Cabinet maker just keeps saying that he is putting wax or something like that. In fact his inventory is almost completely wiped clean (he has like 4 items for sale, none masterwork).


    2. Is there a way to to get some better arrows/bolts? Like +1/+2 arrows, arrows of piercing, arrows of biting, bolts of lightning. Baldurs Gate had a lots of those.


    3. How do you deal with opponents that require magical weapons to be hurt? Magical arrows? Some specific spells? Will, enchanted bow or crosbow, firing regular arrows/bolts work (eg +2, frost, shocking burst longbow and normal arrows), or will I see all 0 damage?


    4. How do you deal with opponents damage reduction (general, or against piercing weapons)?


    5. Is there an easy way for repeatable sneak attacks using bows? I mean using Invisibility/Greater Invisibility requires high end spells. Sneaking up and attacking flatfooted opponents works once per combat (you cant sneak during combat, at least I could not). What I want to know: is there some low lvl spell (like some kind of concealment), or some feats that helps with getting ranged sneak attacks.


    6. If i choose to use light crosbow, is rapid reload important feat to get?


    7. I know that pointblank and precise shot feats are important, what other feats should I take?


    8. Does something like enchanted/masterwork sling exist? Are there enchanted/magical stones for slings? (they were in Baldurs Gate)


    9. Is there a way to tell >>before shooting<<, whether opponent has AC bonus from cover or not?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2011
  2. kio11

    kio11 Established Member

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    thanks for bringing it up. i also have a question. why does player ranged combat always misses? i checked it and while i always roll around 1-9 the enemy archers always roll 15+ why is that?
     
  3. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    1. Tell him to show you what he *does* have.
    2. There's a plenty of +1 arrows lying around later in the game, and a few +3s. No elemental arrows. Not very plentiful though - but regular ones will do just fine, usually.
    3. IIRC, enchanting the weapon itself is enough.
    4. Deal damage above DR threshold. If it's specific type of DR, try enchanting bow with elemental effects.
    5. Nope, that's it. They're already ridiculously powerful anyway.
    6. Can't remember, IIRC no.
    7. Rapid shot for more damage. Manyshot for even more, though last time I got it it didn't work properly. Shot on the run is OK.
    8. I've seen MW slings. No magic stones though.
    9. No idea.
     
  4. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Well Met and Welcome aboard !!
    I will try to answer your questions as best as I can.
     
  5. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Hope this helps.
     
  6. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi
    Regarding the Rapid Reload feat and Light Crossbows, determining whether RR is a "nice to have" or "must have" feat depends on how many levels of fighter your crossbowman will have. If the crossbowman is only going to have 4 levels of fighter (enough to get Weapon Specialization), then Rapid Reload is a "nice to have" feat. On the other hand, if your crossbowman is going to have 6 or more levels of fighter then Rapid Reload is a "Must Have" feat. With Rapid Reload and a Light Crossbow, a 6th Level Fighter gets 2 shots per round, very useful. By the way, if you have an archer that can take multiple shots per round (either using a Light Crossbow with Rapid Reload or a Longbow with "Rapid Shot") the best way to "shoot" is to select "Full Attack" from the Radial Menu. This allows you to shoot one arrow or bolt at your first target. If it kills the target, you can then select a different target for your second bolt or arrow.
    The Royal Canadian
     
  7. EvilCatEars

    EvilCatEars Member

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    Thanks for the answers, wery helpful. So i got myself acces to masterwork bows (you have to wait a day outside of the shop).

    Now I'm running in couple of other problems regarding ranged combat:


    1. What does Manyshot do? It doesn't seem to work at all (no additional attacks, better rolls or damage, still the same penalties).

    How I understand ranged attacks working; when weapon reload is free action you got:

    - 1attack + move when not using rapid shot, at low base attack bonus.
    - 2 attacks (1st: no penalty, 2nd: -5 penalty) and no move, if your base attack bonus is high enough
    - 2 attacks (both at -2 penalty) and no move when youre using rapid shot at low base attack bonus
    - 3 attacks (1st and 2nd at -2 penalty, 3rd at -2 + -5 = -7 penalty) when using rapid shot at high base attack bonus
    - when using manyshot, nothing changes (its eighter 2 attacks without rapid shot, or 3 attacks with rapid shot). No better hit rolls, more attacks or different penalties.

    In fact ranged combat rolls and #of attacks are like dualwield rolls. Dualwielding; 2 attacks at -2 penalty, same as rapid shot, then 3rd attack at -7. After that 4th attack at -7 with improved dualwield. So i thought that manyshot simply gives 4th shot at -7, but apparently it does nothing.


    2. Cover bonus to AC is killing me.
    Your fighters in the way = cover bonus, table in the way = cover bonus, treasure chest in the way (lol) = cover bonus, your wizard tripped by enemy = cover bonus, someone lying unconscious = also quite often a cover bonus. The main problem with it is that, before shooting, there is no indication of cover. Sometimes a 5 foot step can eliminate it, sometimes running around enemy does not.


    3. Whats the point of shortbows?
    They work just like longbows, but with lower damage roll. Is shortbow selling point that the specialization/focus in shortbows also works for composite ones?


    4. Light Crossbows vs Composite Longbows:
    Longbows get better damage (also better critical damage), while Crossbows have wider critical range. On the other hand Composite bows require strenght, and Crossbows require rapid reload feat, and deal lower critical damage. So any comments about bows vs crossbows?


    5. Do you craft +Strenght items for your ranged characters using Composite bows? Or do you have some specific stats set up? For my rogue, to use Composite bow str 14, I had to craft belt +4 Strenght. (Im using point buy system btw).


    6. Is it worth to give some melee combat feats to a ranged character, or should I just focus on ranged feats?


    7. Wizards/Sorcerers in ranged combat.
    Do they have some kind of persistent ranged spells like druids call lightning? In most of my fights, Wizard just cast web/grease, Haste, maybe some invisibility spell, and then just stands there being useless. Of course her accuracy and damage with crossbow is pitifull, spells like fireball run out (sometimes its impossible to even cast them because of close quarters fight, or its pointless to cast them as they will effect low number of targets).


    Edit


    8. Ready vs spell on ranged character against defensive cast. Will I get a shot against a defensive cast, and can i disrupt a spell that way?


    9. Is preparing Counterspell reasonable tactic? I mean my Wizard not doing all that much anyway so she could at least counterspell something.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  8. Rocktoy

    Rocktoy Established Member

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    As Ausdoerrt said it does not work.

    Some characters like bards start with shortbow proficiency. If you wanna use longbows you have to spend a feat in exotic weapons or use an elf.


    IMO crossbows are for generalists and longbows are for those specialized snipers. Glowes of dex, belt of str and bracers of greatter archery with some forementioned feats do the trick.

    As mentioned above. You can do both. And you will get four more stat points by leveling up. You can also buy some of the items.

    IMO it is not. Better having characters who are great in something than having a bunch who can do ok with everything.

    I use a barrage of magic missiles. Always hit and do some damage.


    Edit


    Have no idea.
     
  9. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi ECE
    I will try to answer as best I can
    I hope this helps.
    The Royal Canadian
     
  10. cezmail

    cezmail Gorboth's Rider

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    One other thing people might want to keep in mind is the use of slings. If you have a character who has a high strength, they get to add that bonus to damage and NOT be limited as a strength bow is. For example, if you somehow had a character with a 30 strength, then they would add +10 (TEN) to the damage for each shot. Also as it is considered a simple weapon, your sorcerers and druids can pelt away and not have to worry about using up a feat or dipping into another class to use them. Plus as they are a blunt weapon, fighting skeletons and some oozes and puddings are bait while your bolts and arrows do nada or even add to the number of your enemies.

    Add crafting, weapon focus and specialization and you can have even more damage as the bullets fly. :D
     
  11. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    I take it you guys are aware that you need to right click and place a check mark in the box beside many shot, (in the radial menu) for it to work?
     
  12. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Sirchet
    Welcome Back !! Yes indeed, but thanks for pointing it out for those who might not know. Of course the same is alos true for Rapid Shot.
    the Royal Canadian
     
  13. EvilCatEars

    EvilCatEars Member

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    Wow, I thought manyshot doesnt work but it does. Besides checking the manyshot in radial menu, and using single attack you need to be 30 feet from the target.
    Also it works with True Strike spell, but doesnt work with Haste (you fire 2 times no matter what).

    Overall, this feat doesnt work all that good for rogue. Snake attack goes only for the first arrow, while with rapid shot you can have 3 or 4 (when hasted) arrows with snake attack.

    Nice thing about manyshot is that you can do regular move and still be able to fire two arrows. Also penalty to attack roll is -2, not -4.



    Also found weird behavior of light crossbows. With rapid reload feat they work like regular bows... almost. The thing is that when you pick full attack with rapid shot, you cant attack. You just burn through your whole action bar without firing a shot. This means that, unlike the bows, you cant pick multiple target with crossbows.
     
  14. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    I like to have my bard cast "Glitterdust" on the baddies, then every attack is a sneak attack while they're under the effect of the spell.

    So, my cross-dressing, not so manly bard yells GLITTER and blows a cloud of glitter from the palm of his hand (Ripp Taylor style) and my high level thief, (yeah thief ... ) scores massive sneak attacks while my fighter rolls on the floor laughing.
     
  15. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    What ?? You mean there is a bard that doesn't know the lyrics to "Dust in the Wind" ?? Sacrilege !! :poke: Just kidding. Good tactics by the way.
    The Royal Canadian
     
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