Project Jerkstop: The Final Solution

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Gaear, Mar 14, 2012.

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  1. emo_ome

    emo_ome Butcher Of Hommlet

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    Okay Geaer, I'll start the testing.
     
  2. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    Version 4.01. Wilco.
     
  3. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    General Ghoul was quite adamant recently that he experienced jerkstop while playing the original version of the computer game when it had just been released back in 2003.

    Does the console and the cheat codes work for those early versions of the Circle of Eight Modpack? If so, are we allowed to use cheat codes to level up our characters and give our characters magical items, or do you want us to never use the console while testing for jerkstop?


    You download the different versions of The Circle of Eight Modpack from the following link:

    http://www.co8.org/forum/showpost.php?p=102863&postcount=3

    Is version 3.0.4 of The Circle of Eight Modpack seriously only 2.35 MB in size?

    GuardianAngel82, can you rememeber roughly what version of the computer game (i.e. level of official Atari patching) or what version of the Circle of Eight Modpack that you first experienced jerkstop?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  4. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Yeah, most of the codes should work, except for possibly some Co8 custom codes which may not have been defined at the time of that release.

    I think I would prefer not artificially advancing, because it's possible that the effects of JS are to some degree cumulative and would thus require a regular progression to be seen.

    Yep. The only things modded in those days were simple .mes, script, and dialog files, basically.
     
  5. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    If someone can go back through my old posts and find the first instance I used the word "jerkstop" in a post, you should then be able to figure out what version of the game was current at the time. I'd try to do it now, but I've got to go to work.

    All I remember is that the signpost had been around for a while.

    Other relevant bits of information are that I don't get it until level 4, after I add Elmo and usually after I am killing the skeletons in Emridy Meadows and before I've done much at the Moathouse besides use it as a stopping point. All of this may be coincidence.

    It is never present at the beginning of a game and progresses until the game is unplayable. It seems to announce itself with another phenomena: the party and nearby npc's are frozen in combat poses when I exit the Welcome Wench. I get it EVERY game. I haven't finished a game in years and don't play much anymore. I don't know anything about the WotGS stuff because I've never been able to get it to start.
     
  6. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    It was 5.5, which was the first release in a long while. (I think v5 was released in November 2006 or so, and then the modpack lagged on in 'cumulative mods and fixes' format for a while, then it stalled, then re-started in November 2008 with v5.5. 5.5 wrapped 5.0 and all the CMF stuff together, pretty much.
     
  7. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    The one and only time that I ever experienced GuardianAngel82's definition of "jerkstop" was when I was playing one of the 5.9.x NC modpacks or 6.x.x NC modpacks. My party consisted of 6 player-made PCs and I think that it happened approximately midway through my game (although I'm not sure about this). I ONLY started getting jerkstop while trying to move my party around central Hommlet (and maybe northern Hommlet as well) AFTER I started using the Hommlet signpost A LOT! This is why I believe that the jerkstop that I experienced was caused by my using the Hommlet signpost repeatedly. I first started experiencing jerkstop when my party was below the Hommlet signpost (between the Inn of the Welcome Wench and Brother Smyth). Then, as I tried to move my party around the Hommlet map, the jerkstop continued indefinitely.

    I have occasionally been experiencing the phenomenon where all of the player's characters and all of Hommlet's NPCs standing outside are all stuck (frozen) in combat poses (stances) upon my party either exiting the Inn of the Welcome Wench or arriving at Hommlet using the world map (it seems to happen by far the most when arriving at South Hommlet) since the first time that I experienced jerkstop (i.e. which was with either 5.9.x NC or 6.x.x NC). This phenomenon seemed to happen most often when my party exited the Inn of the Welcome Wench just after my party had rested for 8 hours upstairs in the Inn of the Welcome Wench.



    5.0.x Cumulative Mods & Fixes (CMF) Bug Reports and Discussion Thread

    (note: where mentioned, FE = Front End)


    page 43 0f 46

    GuardianAngel82 (October 15th, 2008) (post #1289)

    I feel like this is not a new problem, and since it's not being mentioned by anyone else, it's probably something I did. So don't do too much research on this. Just give me a generic answer.

    Sometimes, when I click to move the group, the blue circles (discs) appear and the party starts moving, then abruptly, the discs disappear, and the party stops. This is similar to a problem where combat is not successfully being initiated, though not as abrupt.

    This happens only in Homlett, mostly near the woodworker, though occasionally near the blacksmith, militia captain's residence and even less near the Welcome Wench and Kent's (grandmother's) house.

    Also, sometimes when I leave a building, the characters are frozen and unmoveable in combat(?) poses.

    It's in the new 5.0.6, without the new front end. Any ideas?



    page 44 of 46

    Emirkol the Chaotic (October 17th, 2008) (post #1298)

    Yup I can confirm this. Encountered it last night on a trip from the Wench to the Woodcutter. Easily fixed by exiting map and returning. No "combat stance" issues leaving any buildings yet.



    GuardianAngel82 (October 17th, 2008) (post #1299)

    That's where the problem was the worst for me.



    Ausdoerrt (October 18th, 2008) (post #1300)

    Encountered that twice during my playthrough. Mostly happened in the heavily modded areas though (verbobonc or hickory, don't remember). A save and then restart of the game seemed to solve the problem though.



    "Also, sometimes when I leave a building, the characters are frozen and unmoveable in combat(?) poses."

    Emirkol the Chaotic (October 21st, 2008) (post #1303)

    Just encountered this problem myself a few days ago, after returning to Hommlet. Again, moving off the map and back cleared up the problem.

    Running v5.0.6 with the old FE. No other issues and this one is a minor one, at best.



    Emirkol the Chaotic (October 21st, 2008) (post #1305)

    Nope, it's everyone in the party, NPC's included. They're all locked in "combat stance" mode and the game sort of "freezes" up. The music and background sounds play, but you cannot move or interact with any PC or NPC. Going to the world map, traveling to say, Deklo Grove and then back again solves this issue. In fact, once you leave the map for a new location, the issue clears.

    Only had it happen in Hommlet right near the Inn and had the disappearing blue circles issue on the way from the Inn to the Woodcutters. Almost to the letter from GA82's prior posts. No weird effects when exiting any buildings in Hommlet. All the other maps/areas/etc all seem to be clear of these issues.



    Shiningted (October 21st, 2008) (post #1306)

    Ahhh, so you escape by using the Worldmap. Hmmm...

    Well, guys, we're taking these issues seriously but apparently there have been no changes to that part of the map in the latest mod. But we'll keep working on it.



    GuardianAngel82 (November 1st, 2008) (post #1330)

    This is just an update on the freeze/jerkstop phenomena:

    The problem just occurred for the first time in my present game. I just made 6th level.
    I just killed Smigmal's Assassin. I just used the miniature planar chest (which regularly breaks the game session) for the first time. I had a freeze when I left the Wench after resting from killing the assassin. Broke it by leaving town. Later (not immediately on returning), I had a jerkstop on the way to the blacksmith.

    Once again, since it's not a common problem, it doesn't seem urgent.



    GuardianAngel82 (November 1st, 2008) (post #1331)

    Update: I haven't been watching for this, but on the last occurrence, the smith was frozen as I jerkstopped my way over to him. I could talk to him and trade with him.

    This "feels" like the game is trying to initiate combat. Does any of the assassin's equipment do this? Probably not.



    erkper (November 10th, 2008) (post #1338)

    I can verify GA's "freeze in Hommlet" bug - it started midway through my latest game.



    GuardianAngel82 (November 10th, 2008) (post #1340)

    Update on that (I was paying closer attention this time.):

    1. It started at 4th level this time. Perhaps its a mild save corruption.
    2. It doesn't have anything to do with the assassin. (Duh!)
    3. It seems to be associated with map changes, both buildings and big map.
    4. It's always outside and in Hommlet.
    5. It seems to be associated with the Smith or the Woodcutter, and perhaps the children.
    6. Sometimes it's a freeze, sometimes a movement abruptly ends before completion (jerkstop).
    7. Sometimes the outdoor NPC's are frozen, sometimes not.
    8. Maybe related, Bro Smith never hammers anymore. Was any of that "Night" stuff implemented?
    9. Jerkstop is similar to phenomena during movement when combat is not initiating properly.

    * Easily fixed by entering a building (unless frozen) or leaving Hommlet.



    GuardianAngel82 (November 10th, 2008) (post #1343)

    It seems to be some sort of map condition that exists upon arrival on the Hommlet exterior map, from inside the Welcome Wench, for example, or from outside the town. I've never gone to the smith with it not happening, followed by it happening later while still on that map. It's either consistent or not present.

    I'm reporting it because it's new for me, and I'd like others to report if they start experiencing it repeatedly. Perhaps just one similar occurrence is not the same thing. Once it starts for me, it seems to reoccur randomly, but somewhat regularly.

    It is absolutely NOT a game breaker, just a mild nuisance. I doubt it would be worthwhile to spend any time investigating it. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes away the next I add a new patch, or rebuild the game.

    It could be an artifact of my present build. Or some interaction between the game and the sweltering shitfest that is my Toshiba with Vista. For example, I've started getting lock ups from some sort of video failure. This never happened when I first got this computer. I'm sure it's the computer, not the game suddenly having higher graphic requirements.

    Since it's not common, it can't be important right now. It would be fine to wait until we know more. Thanks for your concern, though.



    erkper (November 10th, 2008) (post #1344)

    This is exactly how it occurs for me, and for both of us it only started after we patched the game to 5.0.6 (IIRC the first time GA reported it) so I am inclined to think it is something with the latest build, not a random glitch. But like GA says, it is not a gamebreaker and will likely go away just as mysteriously as it appeared.



    Emirkol the Chaotic (November 10th, 2008) (post #1345)

    I second this. Yet I've only had the freeze bug occur twice so far and those incidents were spaced quite apart. Easily corrected by exiting Hommlet to a different map, say the grove, and then returning to Hommlet.

    Running the same 5.0.6 build as Erkper and GA82 with the old FE.
    Didn't upgrade to the new FE, waiting for new CMF.



    Shiningted (November 10th, 2008) (post #1346)

    Yah: I certainly do believe that somehow or other this is something that has been introduced by 5.0.6, but it might also only occur on certain equipment, for whatever reason. Some of the slowdowns / freezes reported on certain maps in KotB only occur for me on my laptop, not on my proper PC, so its a combination of software and hardware. Makes it hard to replicate if that is the issue, but we'll keep trying.



    GuardianAngel82 (November 14th, 2008) (post #1347)

    More detail on the freeze/jerkstop phenomenom:

    At 7th level, my characters signposted to the cabinet makers to sell some goblin wares. When they appeared, they were frozen, so I panned around to see what else was going on. Black Jay and his animals were frozen, as was a nearby badger. As I continued to pan, everybody unfroze and a second badger walked onto the screen from the direction I was panning towards.

    Perhaps this is associated with the regular game activity where NPC's are frozen until your party is nearby.

    I am reporting this, not because it is urgent, but because it is interesting. It is really not more than a minor nuisance, and no resources should be expended trying to work on it.



    Emirkol the Chaotic (November 15th, 2008) (post #1348)

    Had something similar (if not the same) occur last night on level 3 of the Temple. The freeze occurred right at the entrance to the Jackals and Jackalweres room. Everything froze up and seemed to "stutter". The music played and the "Bless" spell effects were still working (although the spell effects seemed to suffer from stuttering as well).

    This occurrence was slightly different in effect from the freezes encountered in Hommlet.

    Was able to restart from an old save and never had it occur since.

    Running XP, v5.0.6 mod, and the old FE. Definitely an interesting phenomenon but NOT a game breaker. More of a "frustrated sigh" kind of deal.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Thanks for the rundown, gazra. Remember that one of the later 5.x releases already did not have the Hommlet signpost in it (accidentally), and we still got jerkstop reports. Still, a signpost-less trial will probably feature in one of our test mods here again anyway.
     
  9. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    So 5.06 is where it appeared? :errf:
     
  10. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Well 5.0.6 was just one of the many iterations of the CMF, toward the end of its run. 5.5 rolled them all together and that's when JS took off.
     
  11. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    Yeah, that was 5.8.1 (which was the first version of the Circle of Eight Modpack that I ever played, incidentally). I was under the impression that the Hommlet signpost had been deliberately removed from that version of the modpack in order to test whether players still experienced jerkstop as part of the "Jerkstop Testing" project that first tried to determine the cause of jerkstop.

    Gaear, do you still want us to test versions 3.0.4 and 4.0.1 of the Co8 modpack for jerkstop?

    I was wrong about the circumstances of my first experience with jerkstop with this game. Going back through old posts, I came across the following relevant posts:

    The following link contains the following paragraph and images:

    http://www.co8.org/forum/showpost.php?p=101600&postcount=625

    Originally posted by gazra_1971:
    (see the first 2 screenshots below named jerkstop.JPG and jerkstop 2.JPG)



    The following link contains the following paragraph and image:

    http://www.co8.org/forum/showpost.php?p=101814&postcount=642

    Originally posted by General Ghoul:
    (see the third screenshot below named ripplec.png)



    The following link contains the following paragraph and image:

    http://www.co8.org/forum/showpost.php?p=102008&postcount=665

    Originally posted by gazra_1971:
    (see the last screenshot below named game frozen.JPG)
     

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  12. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Yes.
     
  13. emo_ome

    emo_ome Butcher Of Hommlet

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    Update: Still playing v3.0.4 and I'm on the temple now, I've been going back in forth to Hommlet and no sign for any jerkstop.
     
  14. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Thanks emo.

    @m452shakespeare, Mensch86, and Obadiah - are you on board?
     
  15. emo_ome

    emo_ome Butcher Of Hommlet

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    Finished the game, and I haven't seen any jerkstop. Gaear, v3.0.4 is pretty much like the vanilla right, w/ a couple of fixes?
     
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