Pathfinder: Kingmaker (PC)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by anatoliy, Sep 25, 2018.

Remove all ads!
Tags:
  1. anatoliy

    anatoliy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    4
    Complete disappointment. Especially compared to Temple of Elemental Evil.
    ---
    First battle:
    initiative me 10, Bard 10, thug1 4, thug2 5.
    T1, Me: cast sleep on thugs, nothing happens, just marked location. Checked – it is full round, not standard action. But it was not surprise attack, so it should have worked before thugs started to run.
    Unpause – thugs got run near me. WTF? Pause, reset Sleep mark on them.
    T2, Me: Thugs asleep – where is Coup de Grace (one attack kill for asleep)??? None found, oh well, melee attack.
    ...
    ---
    This is RTS, hack and slash with bits of D&D (PF) theme. No initiative queue, who is doing what no clue, complete mess. Cannot cancel action (move).

    Music is awful. Combat panel unreadable, rolls hidden (with hint). Design is unintuitive, context menu (like ToEE had) absent.
    Forget about good tactics, it is mindless RTS.
    And by the way – I started as Bard just to be paired with another (childish chick) Bard at the start.
     
  2. daveyd

    daveyd Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the impression. I was not really expecting to enjoy the combat as I strongly dislike RTwP / RTS in general. I have managed to enjoy many NWN modules in spite of that but mainly ones that are relatively light on combat. I'm guessing this game is pretty combat heavy?

    Anyway, seems those of us who want a 3.5e turn-based CRPG will have Realms Beyond to look forward to.
     
  3. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,601
    Likes Received:
    121
    I have the roll window open, it does mention Initiative, whether it actually makes a difference in combat, I doubt it. There doesn't seem to be an auto-pause on turn end option, or I may have just not found it yet. Sleep is a 1 round casting time.
    Unfortunately Turn Based D&D is still by far less popular than RTwP - I hate that system too, but dev's will follow the money at the expence of rules compliance.
    The music is ok IMO, I don't think the HUD is too bad, the loading times between maps takes too long though.
    I like the idea that the quest is documented in a journal, you can remove the default bard from the party fairly soon after the start of the adventure though.

    My final thoughts: It's a pretty game, rules implementation is good, mostly - Encumberance seems to be calculated as a whole group rather than per individual character. It would have been better as a pure turn based game rather than RTwP IMO, but they will understandably go with the bigger chunk of the market.

    7/10
     
    anatoliy likes this.
  4. anatoliy

    anatoliy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    4
    Yes, I got confused regarding the Sleep spell. It actually due to ToEE has it immediately in your turn. So you are right @Allyx .

    Nevertheless, I still disllike the game. Perhaps ToEE spoiled all the fun.
     
  5. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,601
    Likes Received:
    121
    Sleep is a full round casting time in ToEE too, you can cast it in a round, but you only get a 5' step to move with if you do.
     
  6. anatoliy

    anatoliy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    4
    One round or one turn?

    From what I gather, one round means, that you start casting, not specifying details. And on your next turn you will need to specify location where.
     
  7. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,601
    Likes Received:
    121
    1 full round action is 6 seconds long, 1 turn is 6 seconds long, both allow a 5' step as well if no other movement occurred in that turn, but a full round spell occurs on the round it was cast, a 1 turn casting time spell occurs on the following turn.

    Casting Sleep takes a full round action, in ToEE this leaves you a 5' step and the spell takes effect. In Kingmaker the spell occurs at the end of the 6th second of casting.

    Casting Summon Monster/Nature's Ally 1 also takes a full round action, you spend the whole turn casting and the summoned creature appears at the start of your next turn. In ToEE summons appear on the round you cast it and can act immediately (RAW it shouldn't appear until the following round). In Kingmaker it appears on the 6th second of casting.

    Spells that take multiple rounds to cast allow no other actions to be taken until the spell is complete I'm unsure if a 5' step is allowed at the start or end of the casting, or not allowed at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
    anatoliy likes this.
  8. anatoliy

    anatoliy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    4
    Can we do one round logic in ToEE, I wonder?
     
  9. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,601
    Likes Received:
    121
    For summons spells? I'm not sure. The engine has a weird way of implementing some things. The summon spells should put the summoned creature just ahead of the caster that created it in the initiative order to be RAW. I can't remember if it does or not.
     
  10. anatoliy

    anatoliy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    4
    Don't forget about Sleep spell as well.

    I believe it could be programmed in temple+
     
  11. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,601
    Likes Received:
    121
    Sleep is RAW in ToEE.

    Summon Monster isn't, as the summoned monster can act immediately after the summoner in ToEE. It shouldn't appear until just before the caster's next action. We might be able to add the stunned condition to the summoned creature to delay it's action until the next round, but that opens up rhe posibility that it can die before it can act.
     
  12. anatoliy

    anatoliy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    4
    Not sure
    And Sleep is one round https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Sleep

    So ToEE should have been allowing"
    1) Start casting
    2) Next turn you have free ability to either throw the spell or loose it.
    3) At the same turn you have full actions still
     
  13. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,601
    Likes Received:
    121
    To clarify, I looked it over again, and ToEE's implementation of full round casting time spells is wrong, the spell effects are meant to trigger immediately before that caster's next turn, not on that same turn.

    Furthermore, if the caster receives damage between the start of casting and completing the casting, they also need to make a concentration check or lose the spell.
     
    anatoliy likes this.
  14. Daryk

    Daryk Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    14
    Finally gave up on trying to download it through the Wi-Fi and strung a Cat5 cable to the router today. It's not exactly like table top, and the feat interface was hard to figure out, but the story's interesting. Unfortunately, my third(!) random encounter was werewolves (!!). I think I'll reload in the morning.
     
  15. Daryk

    Daryk Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    14
    Hmmm... I did things a bit differently on the second play through, but once again , the third random encounter was unbeatable. A large party of "Technic League" slavers... Maybe the third time will be the charm...
     
    anatoliy likes this.
Our Host!