Our installation situation is a disaster - the saga of Co8 4.0.0

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Gaear, Sep 18, 2005.

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  1. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay, so I endeavored this evening to go the route any newcomer to the forums would for installing all the pertinent mods from Co8 for ToEE.

    In so doing I culled information and downloads from several different threads, including:

    Premade 'Toffee' 3 Pro modules

    Official releases: A step-by-step download guide

    Additional bug fixes & content

    Optional patches & tools

    entering the Ah Fong Emporium and CTD

    Cujo's Mod

    New PC voices, get em while they're hot!

    ToEE Front-End v3.0a1

    Even Ted's Blog

    All these sources purport to have something significant to say about Co8's mods and what should be installed; all are accesible through different forums on this site to those seeking information, and would likely be come upon by anyone attempting a thorough install.

    After downloading and installing everything I could get my hands on that seemed to be indicated somewhere that it should go in, I literally don't know what I'm running now that its all said and done.

    This situation is a disaster, people. We have alternate versions of identical mods posted in two or three locations, combinations of mods here, updates to some but not all mods there, random zips of some of Drifter's stuff in one spot, other Drifter stuff in another spot, and ultimately unclear indications as to what is included in the wide variety of stuff we have available, what renders other stuff unneccesary, what requires other stuff to run, and so on.

    I recall seeing somewhere in my wide search that Allyx had Toffee-ready packs posted for some stuff. Which of that should go in? Are Ted's voices included in his main mod? I came across that somewhere but can't recall now. I think Cujo's mod is included in Ted's download. But darmagon's new spells seem to remain a separate download, if I'm not mistaken. Not really sure -- I'll have to see if I can relocate that thread again.

    This basically means, I believe, that the average user is going to go away frustrated after spending an hour tracking this stuff down and ending up with some unidentifiable installation on his system.

    What will it take to develop a unified solution to this problem? An updated installation package. 3.0.4 is basically obsolete now, with Liv and Ted's stuff seeming to be standard, not to mention Drifter's, Cujo's, Allyx's, TOFFEE, etc. So locating and downloading 3.0.4 only gets you started on your long journey anymore.

    This sort of thing is tiresome and frustrating to the average player out there. It's almost as though some degree of modding experience is neccesary to get a solid install of the game at this time. That's not good.

    I'd like to formally solicit some input here:

    First of all, do you agree that there is a problem?

    Second, if so, is it something we should bother fixing?

    Third, if it is, what's the first step to getting this done?


    Sorry if I'm sounding like an a-hole. I'd just really like to see some movement in this area.

    Gaear
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2005
  2. bradrinwi

    bradrinwi Established Member

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    i totally agree I was working in silly valley when Toee came out and was warned away from it...
    recently i picked it up figuring someone would have patched it and I found you guys...
    in my few weeks here ive seen fixes patches patches on fixes and very confusing directions...
    allyxs toeefe work great but i then had to make 3 post to find out if the extra spells and items and such were in it .. teds voices confused me cause they have 2 different sites... ive seen several versions of X links...

    i totally agree anyone without a lot of patience who isnt willing to do version compares every time they download something and isnt willing to post questions and wait for replies and then respond to said replies is very likely SOL..

    ..
    how about a fan fixes add on pack Not 3.0 5 or 4.0

    but a heres 3.04 and ,,here is liv cujo teds mods and extra voices....and allyx items and shop in a zip or self install .. pick which you want to install and a nice readme explainng what each contains.. such as teds containing cujo.. and cujo containing .. the demegorgon spells... and ..if allyxs shop contains his items.. or does ted....contain drifters 1-5...fixes..
    ...

    Name of mod add on...

    features.. what previous or now surpassed mods.. it is built with or has built into it...

    what known mods it works with...

    inculde a we recommend installing all of these as a group...

    and make a Toeefe version... allyx has a pretty good start on that..but you have to know or sift thru previous posting and threads to really figure out what all is in them...(qed finding out the spells are there cause cujo is... or that teds 1.20 uses drifters fixes.... etc..)
    just my 6p.
     
  3. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Firstly, yes, there is a problem.

    Secondly, it is definately something we should fix.

    Thirdly, the first step to fixinging it is to remove old versions of mods from the forum. Not to pick on Ted, but does anyone really need the first version of his mod and all subsequent patches now that 1.2.0 is available? Do we really need to have Allyx's Shop Map 1 available for download when it has been superseded by Shop Map 2? The presence of these old versions just causes confusion.

    The second step towards fixing this is to make available some all inclusive downloads. Allyx's Toffee Pro packs are a step in this direction. The Toffee Pro Ted's 1.2.0 has the latest version of everything(Co8, Liv's, Ted's, Cujo's, Darmagon's, Allyx's, and Drifters rules fixes) except for Ted's voices (sheer size of the mp3's makes this prohibitive to include) and Drifter' Humble NPC and Max HP patches. Perhaps Allyx could be persuaded to update it to include those two patches to make it complete.

    Once that is done, we can make a non-pro Toffee installation package (very easy to do once it is in a Toffee Pro package), bundle Toffee in with it, and call it Co8 4.0. Perhaps we can even get The Keeper of the Installer Software (Morpheus), now that he has returned, to wrap it up in a nice installer that puts a shortcut to Toffee on the desktop.

    Anyway, that's my oppinion.

    Edit: And we have to document. Some of us do a decent job of it, but could do better, and some of us have stated that they simply won't do it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2005
  4. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    I agree, the patching situation is a ****ing mess, infact I'm lost and I'm not sure if I've patched up to date and I'm not new any more. I think that because my stuff is included in Teds stuff, that downloads to my stuff should be taken off the board to help avoid confusion.
     
  5. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    I believe i have removed links to my mod v1.0, and indeed old versions of patches, but I agree with the general sentiment. In fact I came online to kick the Co8 4.0.0 idea along.

    Are we waiting for anything? I'd like a new protos.tab with the changes to Zuggy, but I guess they have to be pretty heavily tested. And there was the Arena of Heroes mod to finish. I have to patch my mod one last time (thats an Ah Fong thing, not a DH thing which I want to keep seperate).

    Otherwise, are we waiting for anything else? Releasing Co8 4.0.0 in an .exe will deal with most - not all, but most - of these issues.
     
  6. Morpheus

    Morpheus Mindflayer Veteran

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    You're absolutely right, the situation is getting more and more confusing. The download section, originally designed to make things easier, is getting cluttered with various fixes, patches and mods, some of which are incompatible with each other.

    I think the Toffee packs were a step in the right direction. Could someone throw all the most recent stuff together (Allyx? Cerulean? Ted?)? The Humble NPC and Max HP patches should stay optional, though. And no Vicks & Wedge, please. Wrapping it all up in a nice little installation package wouldn't take too much time.

    The Arena of Heroes mod will have to wait until the next release, probably. My real life job will keep me busy for a while.
     
  7. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Well, I reckon Allyx already took a big step in that direction :)

    And i agree with the many voices that have said we should include Toffee in the official release.

    <passes ball to Allyx>
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2005
  8. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    <chest's the ball down, controls it, looks up....shoots.....SCORES! Then wakes up shouting GOOOOAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!>

    So you guys want me to bundle Drifters patches into the ted's 1.2.0 toffee mod pack (including toffee pro itself) and call it Co8 4.0?

    I can, but I think it would be far easier for someone with broadband to do this. It takes me an hour and a half to upload ted's mod (that's why I scrapped the second version in favour of conversion files for the shopmap v2).
     
  9. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Hmmmmmmm

    Well I can, if thats what people want. More to the point, I can stick my voices in too, if people like those.

    Is there anything else missing? And what about the portrait pack? How is that going Allyx? (Did it get released without me noticing? ;)) I would love to see a new bunch of portraits bundled in, both because my mod interferes with these things, but also because we have new voices and need pix to go with them, and people like them and should be saved the hassle of frigging around with installs (see first post).

    Btw - i WILL yank DH if I am the one to do this, it will save many mbs of sountracks etc and give people the option of installing it only if they want it. I will leave in Playful NPCs, SaM, and Ah Fong and Yvy to get Cujo's stuff (and all Cujo's stuff of course ;)) And the dog who wanders around the labour camp: I find the game to be pointless and unplayable without him. :grin:
     
  10. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Let's answer this question first: Should Toffee be standard? I say yes.

    After that, what all's going in?

    but

    I agree with all of that too. But is Cerulean's Random Random Encounter patch in there somewhere? How about the Juggernaut fix?

    And to specify on the others, we mean:

    Co8: Version 3.0.4
    Liv's: Version 1.5.1
    Ted's: Version 1.2.0, SaM, Voices, Playful NPCs, Ah Fong & Ivy, Cujo
    Darmagon's: All his spells
    Allyx's: All his items, shop map V2
    Drifter's: Everything but Humble NPCs and Max HP

    Is this correct?

    Specifically, we want to package it up and send it to Morpheus, who will roll it into an installer, which will then be called 4.0.0., if I'm not mistaken.

    Good input everyone. Let's keep this ball rollin.' I think we'd all feel a little more liberated about moving on to KotB if we knew we'd left ToEE in its best possible shape.
     
  11. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Oh no you don't, Ted! DH is in! How many mbs will it save to exclude it? I will do the work, but I need everybody whose stuff is in Ted's 1.2.0 to write me a brief discription of what has been added to so I can do a change log and give everybody credit for their work. Also, if we could start a thread here in the Modding Forum with links to the latest versions of everything it would simplify things.

    I'm thinking I will make a Toffee Pro and a Toffee Simple Edition version. Each will be bundled with the appropriate version of Toffee, Co8 3.0.4, Liv's, Ted's, Allyx's Shop Map, Drifter's Humble NPC and Max HP, and the PC Count Patcher. These last three will still be optional as you have to run them or use them through Toffee. Does this sound good? Am I forgetting anything?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2005
  12. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Well, I still have the Co8 introductory credit movie, if anyone's interested. It needs to be modded into the game somehow though -- replacing one of the splash logos, perhaps? It will be a large file, but this thing's already gonna be huge.

    Also, what about your random encounter thing?
     
  13. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Max Hp and Humble NPC should be included. They will still remain optional as you have to run them or use them through Toffee in order to use them. I would throw in the PC Count Patcher as well.

    I agree with no Vicks & Wedge. It is munchkin and does not represent the current state of modding here.

    Toffee should definately be bundled. Why make people do a second download to use the package we are making?

    All the extra's that came with Co8 3.0.4 should also be included (pwizard, disable and enable intro movies bats, etc).

    Edit: My random encouter thing is included in the latest version of Ted's. The Juggernaut fix is included as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2005
  14. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    There are 4 portraits.mes files in my portraits.mess thread (you have to rename the files to switch between them, sorry I got nothing more elegant than that) all .mes versions are compatable with ted's 1.2.0.

    The default portrait.mes can show 70 portraits in character creation, and will show all character portraits created with any and all of the other sets. While each of the other portrait.mes files will show all of that sets portraits first (default portraits fill the rest of the spaces).

    I just zipped all of the portraits (and .mes files) and it's another 9 megs in total. do you need me to post it?
     
  15. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Allyx, I for one would appreciate it if you posted it. For some reason or another I cannot get the portrait.mes stuff you posted earlier to work. I think my portrait packs have different names, and it would be nice if we could bundle it all together into one download. I know it it's a PITA for you to do on dialup and all, but I (and others I think) would appreciate it. I can take over managing it after that if you wish.
     
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