Odd Paladin Character Creation Notes

Discussion in 'The Keep on the Borderlands' started by The Royal Canadian, Apr 6, 2008.

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  1. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Ted
    I thought I had posted this earlier, but I don't see it, so here it is again. I just started another game, this time including a Paladin in the party. So far I have noticed three things about my party's Paladin that have me going Hmmm.

    1.) When I created the ( Human ) Paladin, I was able to give him the feat "Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword" even though he did NOT have the feat "Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword"

    2.) The Paladin has a Holy Symbol in his inventory. That, in and of itself, is not a big deal, but I don't remember my (few) Paladins in vanilla ToEE having Holy Symbols, and Clerics (who SHOULD have Holy Symbols) don't have Holy Symbols.

    3.) In an effort to get into the Thieve's Guild, the Bard in the party "lifted" items from two different houses in the Keep and the Paladin didn't "Fall" .

    TRC
     
  2. matmaisan

    matmaisan Kobold lurker

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    Ted might correct me in this, but the symbol is there to allow the paladin to use his (fixed) detect evil ability. At least this was so in the original version of the demo. It takes a spot in the inventory, but the ability should be used from the radial menu.
     
  3. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Mat
    I'm not 100% certain that a Paladin NEEDS a Holy Symbol to use Paladin Detect Evil. I don't ever recall reading anything to that effect in any of the Players Handbooks ( I must confess, I haven't read the 3.5 rulebook ). I do remember that Clerics, as far back as Version 1.0 ( aka the original Advanced Dungeons and Dragons ), DO need Holy Symbols in order to Turn Undead and Cast Clerical Spells. I also find it interesting that in ToEE, a Paladin will Fall from Grace just by being in the same party as someone who enters the Drinking Contest, but in KoTB, a Paladin who associates with a Rogue/Bard who "borrows" items from rooms in the Keep, suffers no penalty.
    TRC
     
  4. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Hum, that should be checked.

    Exactly. In vanilla, detect evil didn't work.
    The fix for that in KotB is to have a Holy symbol.
    So, put it simple: you need that item to cast Detect Evil.

    Ted must be working on that, or the "lifting" isn't considered stealing.
     
  5. Jadefang

    Jadefang Member

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    I don't think the Bastard Sword thing is a bug (works the same way in regular ToEE). Rather, Exotic Weapon Proficiency for Bastard Sword or Dwarven War Axe is just to let you use them one-handed. Otherwise, you can still use them without penalty (and pick Weapon Focus) as two-handed weapons.
     
  6. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Hum, i think you're right.
    I can't see why wouldn't give you the bonus if you use it two handed. :yes:
    Didn't thought on that
     
  7. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Folks
    Thanks for the info regarding the Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword issue that I mentioned. Jadefangs analysis is correct. I just did a quick test and created a Human Fighter with the "Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword" and "Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword" Feats. This fighter can use the Bastard Sword one handed or two handed with no penalty for having a shield ( one handed ) or a buckler ( two handed ) on the "off hand" On the other "hand", the Paladin cannot use the Bastard Sword one-handed, and suffers a -1 to hit penalty when using a buckler on the "off hand" . By the way, I "finished" the first Thieve's Guild quest, and the Paladin fell from grace upon the quests completion.
    TRC
     
  8. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Ok, now I am confused. What if a monk or someone non-proficient wants to use a bastard sword? Can't they take the feat? I have actually been using 'EWP: Bastard sword' as a guinea pig for testing the adding of feats and had no luck - don't tell me I was using the one feat that wasn't going to work :suprised:

    Re the Paladin's Holy Symbol, yes, thats for the new Paladin's Detect Evil ability. The old one is a bit ambiguous - I think it works, but takes a while to get going (as per the rules that it takes a round or turn or so for the Paladin to concentrate and get it working). So people tend to use it, nothing happens at first and it feels broken.

    The new version will be more user-friendly but isn't working - as folks will have noticed, it turns up in the Cleric's spell list. I fixed that (though you have to roll a new cleric to make it work) but haven't gotten the Paladins to actually use it yet.
     
  9. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    THREADROMANCY!! :evil_laug

    Speaking of bastard swords, I notice the feat allegedly needs Str 13 to work. I this implemented in ToEE?
     
  10. arkhamresident

    arkhamresident Inmate

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    It is. I created a new fighter with a STR of 12 and could take Exotic Weapon Proficiency but couldn't select bastard sword nor dwarven waraxe but after switching the STR to 15 both were available.

    On a side note the description in ToEE states you need a STR of 13 or higher to take the feat but doesn't say that it's just for those two weapons.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2008
  11. grinner666

    grinner666 Member

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    I've given EWP: Bastard Sword to nearly every one of my (CG) clerics in the regular ToEE campaign (for what I think would be obvious reasons) :D In the case of those already proficient with the bastartd sword all it does is allow its one-handed use. For those who aren't proficient it does both ... provides proficiency and allows its use one-handed. Unless things have changed in KotB ...
     
  12. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Thanks for the feedback guys, very helpful. Hopefully I'll have halflings, monks etc getting their weapon proficiencies soon enough :)
     
  13. erkper

    erkper Bugbear Monk Supporter

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    Speaking of weapon proficiencies, what is the prof. for the monk spade? I didn't see it on the feat association index (unless I'm just blind) and I was surprised my monk wasn't auto-proficient with a name like that.
     
  14. grinner666

    grinner666 Member

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    You'll see it if you take the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat.
     
  15. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Well those sorts of new proficiencies will have to be added by script, but I haven't figured out the exact syntax. I was testing with 'bastard sword' and getting nowhere but if I was failing on some other front, such as the PC not having a Str of 13, then I might have had the right syntax after all. Either way, it can certainly be done as Darmagon reported he did it (added feats), he just didn't tell us the exact syntax.
     
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