Nodes slowdown issue: thoughts and conclusions

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Agetian, Nov 6, 2006.

Remove all ads!
  1. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    42
    Re: Volunteers Needed: Jerkstop Testing

    Believe it or not, I'd already done some particle effect tweaking on Temple 4 as well as the other lag places, but while it seemed to resolve the lag for me for the most part, it hasn't entirely 'taken' across the board like the nodes and Fire Temple. I think there must still be a stray particle effect or two related to funguses that's stuffing it up, as I got the known ones.
     
  2. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    5
    Re: Volunteers Needed: Jerkstop Testing

    Once again, to clarify, jerkstop is where the movement command is interrupted before the movement is completed. Hence, they jerk to a stop. It seemed to be a greater problem for some than others.

    Lag has always existed in the areas where there is a lot going on visually.
     
  3. Basil the Timid

    Basil the Timid Dont Mention the War

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    1
    Re: Volunteers Needed: Jerkstop Testing

    So, if I understand correctly, jerk-stop is a type of lag and not all lag is related to jerk-stop? In my case, I am experiencing serious lag, including the jerk-stop (non-combat movement).

    Ah, so that means that the fire node will be more or less trouble-free! I'm looking forward to that. Excellent news Gaear! I'm also looking forward to the new Verbobonc. Incredible work Co8!
     
  4. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,613
    Likes Received:
    537
    Re: Volunteers Needed: Jerkstop Testing

    Oh, just noticed that Basil was talking about the fungus room.

    I was referring to this:

    http://youtu.be/HNU2B3GvRtI?t=15m14s

    The Earth Elementals still have particle effects, and the Fire Elementals are entirely made of particles I think.
     
  5. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    42
    Re: Volunteers Needed: Jerkstop Testing

    The air and earth elementals were the main offenders, and strangely it was specifically their eye particle effects that did it. None of them anywhere have the eye particles anymore. (That includes things like Ildrisses etc.) So it's some other crazy offender, and the only other thing on Temple 4 that's at all unique are the funguses. Eventually we should redo the testing routine there. (I hope I can find where I set it down lol.)
     
  6. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    42
    Re: Volunteers Needed: Jerkstop Testing

    sigh ... so I fired up Temple level 4 for some testing as previous, approached the fungus area, and got some limited lag (a couple 1 second episodes). My system plays nice with ToEE most of the time so when that happens, it probably means a much more significant lag risk for other systems. Yay, so I'm onto something - it's probably a particle effect of one of the funguses (though not absolutely ... ToEE's just not that predictable).

    I turn off the first funguses I encounter (the shriekers), go back and test, and the lag is gone! This means we may have narrowed it down further to one of the many particle effects the shriekers use. Have to be thorough with this though, so I turn the shriekers back on and go back to see if lag has returned. Of course, the lag is still gone. I try it every which way, start new games, unfog the map, scroll all over, delete the map cache, etc., etc. No lag. But it was there the first time.

    Makes it impossible to triubleshoot this stuff when even the bugs aren't reliable. :no:
     
  7. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,613
    Likes Received:
    537
    Re: Volunteers Needed: Jerkstop Testing

    Ran into the same when I tested node lag. I think only rebooting recreated the conditions.

    Either way, I think it's worth setting them to concealed.
     
  8. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    49
    Re: Volunteers Needed: Jerkstop Testing

    Does the module require those exact creatures to be there, or could they be replaced with a more system friendly creature?

    Just a thought, (I try to not distract you guys with my comments but I had to ask). :)
     
  9. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    42
    (Note - I moved the recent batch of lag posts from the former jerkstop thread to this proper one dealing with lag.)

    ~

    Okay, I think I found the (hopefully final) Temple level 4 culprit - the Ascomid!! :angry: Ascomids are those spore-like bouncy purple things that are the furthest back in the fungus area on Temple Level 4.

    I had to set up a whole routine where I could get a reliable few ticks of lag each time I'd try, which I did by first killing Hedrack and Co., then saving in that circular area. Then, each time I'd load a save, I'd go on a tour of the level, down to the electric trap and then to each node lane before finally going up to the funguses. Anyway this apparently flushed the system of enough particles to produce some lag hitches upon reloading them.

    So I just employed the earlier testing method where I turned off the particle effects for each of the four fungus types there (Hooting Funguses have no particles), and when the ascomid's turn came up, my hitches went away. Turning all the other fungus particles back on did not bring back the lag, so it seems fairly conclusive. (Famous last words with ToEE I know, lol.)

    The ascomids have 4 different particle effects that play. Rather than try to isolate the offender further (and for all I know it may have been all of them), I just broke the references to them all. This results in the ascomids going from looking like bouncing purple spores to fun bouncing purple beach balls. Totally worth the tradeoff IMO. :)

    This will be in the upcoming 8.1.0 release btw, so anyone paying attention here, please let us know your play results.

    Let's all hope to god this is basically the end of it. Seems to me that the overall trend since the initial fix up the thread has been that the only significantly lingering offender has been Temple Level 4. I don't hear anybody bitch about the nodes anymore.
     
  10. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,613
    Likes Received:
    537
    Question - have you tried setting them to concealed rather than breaking their particle effects?
     
  11. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    42
    You do love the concealed thing, don't you? ;)

    I don't recall that that was ever a part of my testing routine, because I was pursuing the offenders through the basic process of elimination. Looking up the thread though, we can see a few things:

    - gazra's test of your efreeti concealment looks inconclusive.
    - I know that particle effects still play for mobs that are OF_OFF. Not sure if that's the case for concealed. You wouldn't think so, but ...
    - The water and earth elementals in Senshock's area were both concealed prior to the lag fix.

    We could try concealing them, but I don't know that there's much to be gained. Losing a few particle effects is better than altering a hidden-or-not condition, assuming those were set the way they were intended to begin with. And if the particle effects are that problematic, I'd feel more comfortable having them entirely gone rather than just off at certain times.

    The impact of the lag fix thus far in terms of lost particles has not been significant IMO when compared against the gains -

    gains - most significant bug in the history of ToEE is mostly fixed
    losses - air and earth elementals no longer have beady red eyes, efreeti no longer have blue fuzzies underneath them, and now ascomids no longer have purple spores

    That's a slam dunk in my book. :)
     
  12. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,613
    Likes Received:
    537
    The main reason I keep coming back to the concealed thing is that there are a number of instances where elementals exist in the game where no lag has ever been reported - e.g. the Earth elementals in the Earth Temple, the Air Elementals in the Air Temple, and the Node Guardians (the Balor even has Efreeti). The thing they have in common is that they are all concealed.

    Thus it seems logical that setting all the offenders to concealed status would solve the problem, without impairing any visual effects. (you have to admit that the Efreeti look odd without their halo, no? by your account the Ascomids do too, though they are pretty goofy to begin with)

    Still, I don't wish to harp too much on minor issues. If you're satisfied with it, then I am too, so long as the fucking lag is gone!
     
  13. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    42
    Well I'm guardedly hopeful on that score. (This being ToEE you can never be sure, but at least we have some precedent for success with the original lag fix.) I guess we'll see how players fare and respond accordingly. :)
     
Our Host!