While the desperate wait for 7.9 and KotB continues, I thought I'd take through a 4 man party based on certain themes: A sorcerer specialist evoker A wizard specialist summoner and ray/missile user A light armour fighter or ranger build (high dex, going down the dodge/mob/improved trip and whirlwind attack route maybe) and one of either A heavy fighter - either two or one handed, not decided yet. An archer - ranger or fighter, also not sure which yet. No cleric, no thief etc. I thought this would throw up some interesting challenges regarding healing, diplomacy and opening locks etc, but thought it might be fun to play really specialist builds. Wondered if anyone has comments on these kinds of builds from experience.
My suggestion would be to substitute the wizard summoner with an elven druid- summoning is their specialty and you don't have to memorize healing spells if you don't want to and being an elf, won't be restricted to just druid weapons. And if your light armor fighter is going to be a ranger (or monk?) then I'd say go with the tank- someone that can absorb a lot of hits and dish out heavy damage is always welcome in any combat.
Lack of a cleric is a big hole in my opinion. I like to roam around with two clerics. After they get 2nd level spells (sound burst) you should see why. Very handy for immobilizations and group damage, and the healing can save your ass.
To add to this- w/o a cleric you will go thru tons of potions but I'm not sure if a wizard or sorcerer can use clerical scrolls, the reason being is that using potions provoke AoO while using scrolls doesn't- another reason I suggested the druid over the wizard. And just to add: before I used the Co8 modpack I started a vanilla game using a druid and bard in place of a cleric and rogue, which made Emridy Meadows really tough...
For "pure" archers, I usually use a Ranger/Fighter multi-class. You get the best of both worlds with regard to skills and feats (start as a Ranger).
Actually I deliberately chose to play without a cleric as I find the game a bit of a breeze, so I'm not really looking for ideas on alternative characters, more any hints or tips to build these guys up in a strong or interesting fashion, if anyone has them. The party mix is deliberately chosen to be difficult, but hopefully interesting to play also. It's why I have also limited it to 4 characters only. On the archer character - yes I am looking at a mix fighter/ranger too. Not really clear where the balance lies there. Rangers give more skill points, some extra abilities, favoured races and spells at higher levels, but fighters get the feats quicker, making a good archer earlier (even with the ranger specialisation), which is really the theme I am going for. Was tempted to start ranger then switch, but I think it might be better the other way around, or stay fighter throughout.
I go with elves (for the +2 DEX), and keep them within one level of each other (i.e. Ranger 1, then Fighter 1, Ranger 2, Fighter 2, etc.). This smooths out the feat progression early on, and eventually gives you access to Greater Weapon Focus (at Fighter 8). You still get spells, and a total of three favored enemies when you hit Ranger 10. A slightly more challenging archer build substitutes Rogue for Ranger. It's slower going BAB-wise, but the sneak attack damage usually makes up for the lower number of attacks. At 20th level, I usually take Rogue 11 vice Fighter 10. There's no more level progression to worry about, and the extra sneak attack die is worth more than another feat at that point.
Well then, since it seems to take forever to get a ranger up to whirlwind attack level, I'd suggest the ranger as the archer and the fighter as the whirlwind killer. Fighter's got better HP also, so he'll stan up longer without a cleric in the second row to heal him during hard pounding combats. The rogue option is interesting and worth further development. I experimented with a couple of NPC rogues, turning them into sorcerers after 4 or 5 levels of rogue in place of adding Spugnoir to the party, just for the sake of variety. They usually make lousy spell casters, but they are a bugger for the opposition's flankers to try to run around since they still get sneak attacks.
Since you want no substitutions here goes : Sorcerer: I always use my sorcerer as the heavy artillery guy so make them human to get the 2 feats at character creation and take Spell Focus Evocation and Greater Spell Focus Evocation at the start and add Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration later. Aside from Evocation spells take one or two defense spells (Mirror Image, Protection from Arrows, Shield, etc.) and/or give them Weapon Focus Shortbow or Point Blank Shot to make use of all the crowssbow ammo to be found. Wizard: elven if you want them to use the magic bows and swords to be found (which ties in with being a missile/ray specialist and the +2 Dex will help with that) or human if you want the additional feat at character creation. Take Spell Focus Conjuration and Augment Summoning if you chose a human character and later Greater Spell Focus Conjuration and Weapon Focus Ray for your ray spells. Light armor fighter: there is a whole thread dedicated to the monk class as a good choice for experienced players and they definitely fit your plan of light armor/quick strike/improved trip fighter. Dodge, Mobility, Two Weapon Fighting, Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack should be the feats chosen first- Two Weapon Defense or Exotic Weapon Proficiency can be taken to booster AC and take the weapon of choice for the monk. If you go ranger you can actually build to both of the ranger styles of combat by selecting one of the two choices at second level and then just using the appropriate feats to manage the second style. Your last choice of either heavy fighter or ranger w/archery I went with heavy fighter since you get lots of feats as a fighter and with the Quickdraw feat can easily switch between melee and missile weapons w/o losing attacks. By the time you reach the teens in levels you should have Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Improved Critical for at least 1 melee and 1 missile weapon of your choice. The one thing you haven't said is whether or not you'll be doing any crafting- the Helm of Reading Magic will definitely help save in identifying all the potions and scrolls you find- if you craft nothing else at least craft that. Have fun and good luck! :thumbsup:
Sorcerer - Definitely focus on Evocation though I would grab a few spells from other spell books as well. Mirror Image and Displacement are fantastic self-buffs. Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud are fantastic crowd control spells. I would suggest grabbing some Metamagic feats as well. Heighten, Maximize and Empower are the best choices for a Sorc. Wizard - Eh, nothing to add really. Make sure you grab Eagle's Splendor for your Sorc I guess. For barred school, I would definitely make Evocation one of them, since the Sorc can handle all that just fine on his own. Though you'll miss out on Scorching Ray and Polar Ray... not that the latter matters much since Disintegrate is flat out superior AND on a lower spell level. Light Armor Fighter - If you're going to go DEX based you might as well go for Two Weapon Fighting and Weapon Finesse. While Fighter is a good choice for this type of character, you'll probably want to multiclass once you've got all your main feats sorted. Rogue is the best choice since you'll likely be using this character to set up flanks for your... Heavy Armor Fighter - Personally I would go with a two-handed weapon. Heavy Fighters don't need too many feats so its best to start multiclassing once you have Weapon Specialization. Paladin and Barbarian are the best choices. I wouldn't go with the Archer. This would make your Light Armor Fighter the only melee character... and that can be quite dangerous, especially early game when his AC is going to be crap.
Thanks everyone for their views. Since 7.9 is now out I am abandoning this party at level 6. This is what i chose: Sorcerer evoker - pretty standard, specialised in evoke/penetration, and a useful spear thrower. Wizard conjurer - Took augmented summoning. Not many spells to support his summons, but I like to play wizards for their general all round abilities, and learning of spells from scrolls + scribing, so he fulfilled the usual support role. In the end I did not take focus ray, as I couldn't tell which ranged attacks are rays (apart from the ones called 'ray' in the name), so it seemed a bit limited. Two handed fighter - yeah, the usual double handed glaive/ransuer wielder with great cleave etc. The least interesting build for sure, but hard to go without one of these! Light fighter - good dex and strength made this guy a phenomenal acid thrower, and as his strength turned out almost as good as his dex, I didn't need weapon focus and took a shield instead. Most of the time he was throwing stuff and then engaging. I did take whirlwind attack and improved trip, but decided next time there's not really much point having both, and still can't decide if whirlwind is worth all those feats to get to. Still, my favourite character by some margin, as fun to play. Challenge level was about right for me, with no healers, and only 4 party members, so looks promising for 7.9. My next party I have decided I will have a specialist spear user, as the focus path gets you good at ranged and melee at the same time, and is a little different from the standard ranseur/composite route. I am also considering dropping the evoker for a really big challenge! Perhaps retry the fighter/sorcerer concept.
If you got a spear specialist, don't forget to include improved trip as 1 of his feats. Why? With a longspear, you can trip your opponents from a 5ft distance The only drawback, offcourse, is that I haven't found a magical or masterwork longspear in this game...
The trouble with a longspear is it uses a different feat, otherwise it would be perfect. With weapon focus spear you get ranged & melee bonuses in one go.
When Brother Smyth starts selling masterwork items, he has an 80% chance of having a Masterwork Longspear for sale. If you complete the 'War of the Golden Skull: Defender' quest, then Ariakas offers you a choice of rewards, one of which is a Longspear +2. When Fireforge sets up shop in Verbobonc, he has a 50% chance of having a Longspear +2 for sale.
