I Never Knew I Could Do X Until Just Now...

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by UniversalWolf, Jul 28, 2010.

Remove all ads!
  1. zugschef

    zugschef Established Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you want to play a summoner go Cleric or Druid.
    (Not only because of power gaming, but for rp-reasons, too. See below.)

    The Cleric has only one spell less than the Sorcerer but has two good saves, medium bab, a d8 hd, heavy armor proficiency, turn undead and his domain power.

    The Druid has two spells less, but can spontaneously cast the summon nature's ally spells. Since the Sorcerer knows only one level 3 spell at level 5 for instance, the Druid is a hell of a lot more versatile. On top he has more skillpoints, better bab, better armor, better weapons, an animal companion, wildshape and more hit points.

    If you play a Sorcerer do yourself a favor and just pick the best spells. You can't afford to specialize since you know so few of them. Pick up sleep, color spray, grease, web, glitterdust, stinking cloud, deep slumber, phantasmal killer (watch out, though right now you don't get any XP for killing dudes with save or dies), solid fog, otiluke's resilient sphere, feeblemind and cloudkill.

    And that's not against rp-immersion, it's actually the opposite.

    People who aren't good at something won't specialize in exactly this field. You wouldn't want to be a weak weightlifter in real life, either. If you want to play a Summoner, play a summoner and not whatever name DnD has chosen for its available classes. And the best summoners in this game are either Clerics or Druids. That's because when a Cleric casts summon monster he has the Cleric's chassis and when the sorcerer casts the same spell, he has the much weaker sorcerer's chassis. So for this round he's the bug sucker.

    The arcane casters have other things to do than letting Cleric and Druid show them how to do it right, like casting spells which their divine buddies don't have access to.
     
  2. tom

    tom Established Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was wondering why none of the staffs worked . Something i didn't realize until recently - while wands work if kept in the inventory a staff must be held in the hand to function.
     
  3. Gehennis

    Gehennis Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    15

    If I might say this about sorcerer spells- Sleep is ineffective after a few levels- I'd start with Magic Missile since it will come in handy at every level. And since I use my sorcerers as heavy artillery I take Fireball over Stinking Cloud (I usually leave that to the wizard). We agree on all the other spells though- Glitterdust and Phantasmal Killer are great against the temple bugbears... ;)
     
  4. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    26
    While I agree with zugschef that role-playing 'deliberately' underpowered characters (as opposed to role-playing optimised characters with suboptimal mechanics) is a bit odd in a heroic fantasy game, I've always thought that the way D&D runs druidic summoning is a bit odd- i.e. summon meat shield just as a wizard does. My first TOEE druid was a back-up healer/ caster of produce flame, call lightning, spike stones etc- until the point we met Iuz on level 4 of the Temple, and the only way I could think of avoiding TPK was to flee down the corridor, with the druid throwing small furry animals out behind hrr to slow the rampaging god. Hmm, NG druid sacrifices small furry woodland animals to CE god in to save herself- pretty much the opposite of what you'd expect...
    I know it's due to a limitation in the game mechanic to a certain extent that all you can do with summoned creatures is get them to fight for you, but it still seems odd.
    Incidentally, one of the many things I have learned since is that 'flee combat' automatically teleports you to just before you entered your current map.
     
  5. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    26
    Oh, and I'm not sure why a cleric of Pelor or Heironymous (or a lot of other non-nature/ non-magic gods) should have access to Summon Monster at all... I think that Spheres of Influence was one of the really great things in 2nd edition that never saw its full potential.
     
  6. zugschef

    zugschef Established Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    I swap it out later. Sleep is a battle ender. Magic Missile is not. As soon as you hit level 4 swap it out for Grease. Grease sucks early because of its rd/lvl duration, but is awesome later on.

    Actually for level 1 spells, there are these options for a sorcerer:
    Charm Person - take a dude out of a fight.
    Colour Spray - nice option even in mid to high levels to use against big brutes if you are either out of spells or want to conserve them for later.
    Enlarge Person - your meatshield loves that.
    Grease - big brutes hate that.
    Sleep - mass save or die on level 1.
    True Strike - quicken it and make sure that ranged touch attack hits.

    For level 2 you have good 4 choices, the other spells really don't matter that much:
    Glitterdust - not as good as in tabletop, since enemies act as if they could still see.
    Scorching Ray - at level 12 this bad boy can do 18d6 points of damage if you empower it.
    Tasha's Hideous Laughter - take one dude regardless of race out of the fight.
    Web - i don't need to tell you why this spell is awesome.

    Level 3:
    Deep Slumber - like its little brother sleep.
    Fireball - use it for the mooks.
    Greater Magic Weapon - save cash.
    Haste - give the meatshield another attack.
    Stinking Cloud - ridiculously good spell; turns impossible fights into cakewalks.

    Level 4:
    Charm Monster - see its little brother.
    Otiluke's Resilient Sphere - save one dude for later or rescue an ally.
    Phantasmal Killer - you die.
    Solid Fog - combine this with Stinking Cloud and Cloudkill for more awesome than your mind has room for.

    Level 5:
    Cloudkill - first make your opponent unable to act, then unable to walk and this is the smackdown.
    Feeblemind - cast that one enemy wizards.
    Hold Monster - the cleric doesn't get this one; if it gets through coup de grace the poor sucker.
     
  7. zugschef

    zugschef Established Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    Summons don't die. Only called creatures die. Summons go back to their plane from where they were summoned.
     
  8. tom

    tom Established Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is possible to neutralise Zuggtmoy with first level mu spells while a fighter hacks her to death in a leisurely fashion.
     
  9. Prologue

    Prologue Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Verbobonc patrol in Welkwood Bog is invincible, and each guard has 3 or 4 HD. I managed to get one with Sleep before the rest of his squad disappeared. He was not Coup de Graceable, but at least he didn't wake up when I attempted to finish him off. He woke up naked and my Paladin had a nice tree-emblemed shield she used for a while :twisted:

    I can't get Improved Two-Weapon Fighting to work like that, and my monk loses ki bonuses with a weapon in off-hand. He has to spend a move action to sheath his axe and make less attackers/round when faced with DR/magic creatures...

    The hotkey for Trip is also temperamental. Hitting it a few times can often do it.

    Wait his sister?? Nevermind... I'll spare myself potential spoilers and figure this out myself ;)
     
  10. BenWH

    BenWH BGPHughes

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unless I am much mistaken his sister is already dead. Sure you went to the right woman?!
     
  11. EdCon

    EdCon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tasha's Hideous laughter on a low level bard makes killing R and G laughably funny. Also, enough xp to level up from that alone.

    Six characters with Spiked Chain + Improved Trip + Combat Reflexes + Ready vs Approach = a gang standing around, swinging their chains like 90s gangsters, then beating down anyone stupid enough to close for melee. The visual is worth the setup, and, with AoO each time someone is in range and tries to get up, and reach weapons, it makes for a fun fight. Doubly fun for fights like the Moathouse frogs, where they have to close to attack.

    Characters with very low intelligence are ideal for courting Meleny and saving the brother of the soon-to-be-Cuthbert townsman. The dialogue rocks :)

    -EC
     
Our Host!