Formalizing the Shopmap

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Gaear, Apr 30, 2008.

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I think that the starting shopmap caravan should:

  1. Be changed from an NPC encounter to a formal instruction format.

    11 vote(s)
    31.4%
  2. Be left as is.

    11 vote(s)
    31.4%
  3. I have some other idea, which I'll post below.

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
  4. Be changed so that the more powerful gear is not availalble.

    20 vote(s)
    57.1%
  5. Be left as is.

    3 vote(s)
    8.6%
  6. I have some other idea, which I'll post below.

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Huh? Where?
     
  2. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    In the data/art/interface/inventory folder of KotB. The 11ยบ file, black_long_coat_icon ;)
     
  3. Tyrannar

    Tyrannar Wanderer in the dark

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    Re: Standardizing Scrolls, Potions, and Wands

    Is there a possibility of adding another icon for black plate, it uses the same one as regular plates do.
     
  4. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Re: Standardizing Scrolls, Potions, and Wands

    Is there black plate? There is black half-plate, that has its own icon now but didn't used to. but yeah, we can come up with a new icon if necessary.
     
  5. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I was toying with the idea of changing the shopmap from that of the LG vignette/gnoll-attacked caravan map to that of a lesser known and seen interior map. This would mean that the shopmap concept would fundamentally change from being a merchant caravan to being an actual shop that you visit at the start of your adventure.

    Among the advantages of this are that a) a shop in a building might be more realistic than the slightly hackneyed (and overplayed in ToEE) notion of the venerable 'travelling merchant caravan,' and b) we'd avoid that "oh yes, there's that old familiar caravan map again that we see so much of in ToEE" effect.

    Anybody got any opinions on this? I wouldn't be heartbroken if we didn't do it, but it might freshen things up a bit for the next release if we did. :)
     
  6. thearioch

    thearioch Need More Cowbell

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    My 2cp -- I like using the caravan map. Assuming NPCs on the map use appropriate dialog, or there are some items on the ground PCs can use to determine that this is the same caravan, it can give a sense of continuity. Maybe a ranger finds tracks showing that Jade cas escaped or something.

    Basically, if it looks like re-use because of laziness, it's bad, but if it's worked into the story, it's good.

    --thearioch
     
  7. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Part of the problem though is that I don't know that the shopmap/caravan ever was intended to have anything to do with the ToEE story. For example, I never understood that it was meant to be the same caravan as either the LG vignette bandit-attacked one or the Livonya gnoll-attacked one. There are different NPCs on those maps - the dying woman looking for Peter on Liv's and the survivor guy on the vignette, and no Jade Empress et al.

    Incidentally, I have added a reference to a 'sister caravan up the road' for LG parties in my as yet unreleased shopmap modifications to try to add just this sort of continuity, as you say ...
     
  8. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    hehe, i had the same thougth. Quite evil detail. ;)


    @Gaear

    if you want a different map, then the colosseum isn't used atm, right? The cheering crowd could be taken out (sound and graphics), and with some touch ups could be transformed into a kind of marketplace (i'm thinking in something a la Indiana Jones style :eyebrow: )...since it's not a random encounter, maybe could stay as a place to go thru all the game.
     
  9. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Well, the idea would be not only to relieve the caravan map of triple duty, but to put the shop in a stone and mortar building, where one might more normally be found instead of doing the whole flea market thing again. Thus, using the coliseum would be more of the same as the caravan map, ultimately.

    Plus, that may still be used for AoH or something else one day.
     
  10. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    I see, indoors...

    Hum, you want to add a new map, or re-use one of the game?

    If you want to use one of the little seen maps, there's one upstairs room in Hommlet that's big enough, and even have crates and all...i don't remember which one, dammit.
    Also, in the Temple, there's a room with little importance, one which has a group of goblins and two giants, i think the same floor where you find Thrommel...it is one of the best maps of the game, and it has a good deal of strange stuff, like pipes and glass tubes, though it may look too exotic...

    Yeah, about that, i've read an old thread that mentions a AoH demo-beta version....what happened with that? I know that Morpheus didn't show up again, but has anyone followed the work?
     
  11. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Thanks for the info HK, but what I'm mainly interested in knowing atm is whether people would want or tolerate such a change.
     
  12. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Hum, i you feel that it should be changed, then do it. :)

    don't forget, the caravan map it's Co8 stuff, specifically Allyx's work. If he doesn't have problems with it, then something new it's always welcomed.
    The caravan it's a bonus for players, something that wasn't there and it's been added cos Allyx thought it would be cool (and cos is slightly mad :p ),not something like changing the big, opulent church for something smaller, more accordingly to a village.

    Now, listening their opinions it's good, but they will always have a problem with something...so, do what you think it would work best, and let people adapt. For example, personally i don't have a problem if it stays as it is atm, but since you're going to adap it, i will have to adapt myself and can't complaint. :)
     
  13. Cuchulainn

    Cuchulainn Windmill Tilter

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    I'll put in a yes vote for the interior shop idea.

    I voted to leave the shop map with character interaction (makes more sense to me in the setting), but if you are starting from scratch I'd like to see it more as an element of character creation. Meaning no conversation as such, in fact I'd replace the people all together whith interactable stands or whatever that you purchase equipment from. You could either leave one person to doll out relevant information (players wouldn't have to talk to them if they didn't want), or go with a book or altar or whatever.

    Just my thoughts.

    Cuchulainn.
     
  14. thearioch

    thearioch Need More Cowbell

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    How hard would it be to make it a configurable option (either on ToEEFE or a good old *.ini file)? If it's just a game start map with no use later on, I'd say let the players choose.

    Of course, if you make the shop a building, players may want to return, or wonder where it is. With the caravan option, it's easier to believe that it's a one-time deal.

    --thearioch
     
  15. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    No offense, but I personally dislike the 'have it your way' selectable options at install approach. If it were reserved for very weighty things, such as new content or no new content, that would be okay. But lesser stuff doesn't merit it, imo. So I don't think we'll go that route with the shopmap.

    I suppose in the end I'll either just try it out or not, and if I do people can decide whether they like it in CMF circulation.

    Thanks for the input. :)
     
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