Elven Lightblade & Thinblade

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by ShadowDragoon, Oct 23, 2006.

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  1. ShadowDragoon

    ShadowDragoon Advocate of Vengence

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    Just a couple quick questions. Does anybody have any plans on modding in the Elven Lightblade and Thinblade? Because if not, I'm gonna try to work on putting those in. And also, how hard would it be to edit the Elf race to make the Elven Lightblade and Thinblade racial proficiencies?
     
  2. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    We'd need to be able to add in feats (EWP Light Blade and Thin Blade) before those weapons could be implemented properly.
     
  3. ShadowDragoon

    ShadowDragoon Advocate of Vengence

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    Come to think of it, that's true.

    But then again, according to the official rules, the Lightblade counts as a shortsword and rapier, while the Thinblade counts as a longsword and rapier. So, I suppose as long as the Elf has proficiency with rapiers, longswords, or shortswords, they'd have all the proficiencies required to use those weapons efficiently.

    Though, still, for creating the weapons themselves, nobody's working on it?
     
  4. Jesse Heinig

    Jesse Heinig Established Member

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    They are exotic weapons, so they would need associated exotic weapon proficiencies. There's a racial weapon familiarity feat that gives you a broad range of proficiency with your race's special weapons; if elves had proficiency with these automatically, there'd be no need for such a feat.
    Note also that having these weapons means needing to have Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Improved Critical available for 'em.

     
  5. ShadowDragoon

    ShadowDragoon Advocate of Vengence

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    You're not understanding it. For the purposes of Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, and all similar feats, the Elven Lightblade functions as both a rapier and shortsword. The Elven Thinblade functions as Longsword and Rapier. Which means, if you take Improved Critical (Rapier), it would apply to the Rapier, as well as the Thinblade and Lightblade. If you took Weapon Focus (Longsword), it would function for both the Longsword and the Thinblade. That's how the rules for the weapons work in the official rules. That's why I thought you could just implement them as Shortsword/Longsword/Rapier, and (until we make some more advancements in adding new feats and such) just ignore the fact that they're technically Exotic weapons.
     
  6. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    Implementing them without EWP feats would make them overly powerful because they are better than non-exotic weapons. Plus, I'm not sure one can implement a weapon to use multiple proficiencies within ToEE.

    Not only that, but the thinblades and lightblades are non-core rules (they're in the Arms and Equipment Guide, correct?) which, while an official WoTC product, does not have the same degree of playtesting and balance-checking as the core books. Also, anything not in core books is considered optional. We'd be effectively adding House rules, even though they're official ones, to the game, which we try to avoid as a community.
     
  7. ShadowDragoon

    ShadowDragoon Advocate of Vengence

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    Well, that is fair, I suppose. I've just always liked those weapons, and know of many people that use them. I always wondered why nobody put them in the game yet.

    For the sake of just seeing if it's possible to put a weapon into multiple proficiencies, I'm going to try to make the weapons anyway. But, as for actually implementing them in the game, I'll leave that alone.
     
  8. Cuchulainn

    Cuchulainn Windmill Tilter

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    @ShadowDragoon: Always nice to see someone new taking an interest in modding. If you're mainly interested in the weapons for their RP value rather than the improved stats, I can't see a problem with adding them as shortsword and longsword variants with the regular stats.

    Have fun and if you run into trouble just post a detailed description of where you're at, there's a wealth of modding experience on these boards.

    Cuchulainn.
     
  9. Jesse Heinig

    Jesse Heinig Established Member

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    No, I understand fine. The problem is that you can't (for instance) make the lightblade function as both a rapier AND a shortsword for feat purposes. This was demonstrated in the problems implementing the cutlass as well. And you *can* choose to take a Weapon Focus et. al. with any of the specific weapon types as well, which means those need to be added to the appropriate feat listings.
    If you're going to start adding all of the racial weapons and armor, then you might as well also add the exotic armor from <i>Races of Stone</i> and the special leafweave/thistledown armor from <i>Races of the Wild</i> as well - although some of those will have their own additional problems.

     
  10. ShadowDragoon

    ShadowDragoon Advocate of Vengence

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    I'm familiar with those sets of equipment, and I can understand how it would be a problem. But you don't have to bite my head off. << I mean, it's not like other people aren't adding just this or that for the sake of seeing if they can. As for the content being from a non-core rulebook, I've seen threads around about people trying to add more character classes and subraces. I don't think any of those are in the core rulebooks. I just wanted to see if the Light/Thinblades could be done, so I asked. And I'm going to try and get them to work anyway, because I'm one of those kinds of stubborn hard-heads that when you say something isn't possible, he just has to try anyway because he won't believe it until he knows himself. =p
     
  11. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Could you post the official stats of those weapons for those of us who are unfamiliar with them please?
     
  12. ShadowDragoon

    ShadowDragoon Advocate of Vengence

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    Sure thing. Here it is, straight from Races of the Wild.

    Sword, Elven Thinblade: This rapierlike exotic weapon is
    the size of a longsword but much lighter. Like the lightblade,
    it is favored by dexterous elf fighters and rogues.
    A character can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply his
    Dexterity modifier instead of his Strength modifier to attack
    rolls with an elven thinblade.
    Characters proficient with the elven thinblade may treat
    it as a rapier or a longsword for the purpose of any of the
    following feats: Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon
    Specialization, Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, and
    Weapon Specialization.

    Sword, Elven Lightblade: This rapierlike exotic weapon is
    the size of a short sword but weighs only as much as a dagger.
    Dexterous elf fighters and rogues favor it. Its thin, flexible
    blade slips easily into the seams of armor or between the ribs
    of a foe. Some elf nobles carry a lightblade—often decorated
    with intricate filigree and tiny gemstones—as a sign of their
    station, even if they aren’t proficient in its use.
    Characters proficient with the elven lightblade may treat
    it as a rapier or a short sword for the purpose of any of the
    following feats: Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon
    Specialization, Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, and
    Weapon Specialization.

    Exotic Weapons | Cost | Dmg (S) | Dmg (M) | Critical | Range Increment | Weight | Type
    Light Melee Weapons
    Sword, elven lightblade | 50 gp | 1d4 | 1d6 | 18–20/×2 | — | 1 lb. | Piercing
    One-Handed Melee Weapon
    Sword, elven thinblade | 100 gp | 1d6 | 1d8 | 18–20/×2 | — | 3 lb. | Piercing
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2006
  13. smg225

    smg225 Gyro Captain

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    Other than the weight and the fact that there's an alternate proficiency path possible, how is the lightblade different from a rapier? I can see the thinblade being unbalanced (in concept as well as implementation, since the whole point of a rapier is that it is very light and quick & while a 'greatsword' makes sense as an escalation of the category 'one-handed sword' a 'greatrapier' so to speak is oxymoronic) but I don't see much of a difference in the lightblade as described--it seems mostly a matter of flavor. What am I missing?
     
  14. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    The issue is is that the lightblade is an actual light weapon, not a finessable one-handed weapon like the rapier is. Which means it can be dual-wielded as a light weapon.
     
  15. smg225

    smg225 Gyro Captain

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    Oh! That's pretty desirable. I see.
     
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