Building a good sneak attacker

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by cbarchuk, May 13, 2011.

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  1. cbarchuk

    cbarchuk Member

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    Looking for some tips on making a powerful dual wielding rogue for sneak attacks. Just curious, so I can plan ahead, is pure rogue the way to go or should I mix in some fighter levels? For race, is Elf maybe a better choice to get a 20 dex for weapon finesse? Anyways just trying to figure what to do with my rogue so he's effective. Thanks a bunch guys.
     
  2. chano

    chano Established Member

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    The rogue get crippling attack later on so i never dual class rogues.
    I choose martialweapon handaxe so that i can use the Cleaver(invite Fruella and either wait for her to die or upgrade her equipment after level up to get hold of it.
    There are another cleaver in the temple so you can dual wield them.
    The cleaver has 17-20 critical range and with a sneak attack you can
    do some serious damage.
     
  3. cbarchuk

    cbarchuk Member

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    Should I go human or elf? What about dual wielding? Some folks seem to think the dual wield penalties aren't worth it.
     
  4. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Smythe sells them when you get his masterwork selection, and most of the female bugbears carry them, so there are plenty to go around.


    You can make a sneak attack anytime your opponent is flatfooted or you flank them. To be able to make a sneak attack you have to be able to hit them, so the best build would include options to hit more often. While Crippling Strike is one of the best feats, it won't help if you don't hit. Adding in a level or 2, or 4, of fighter or ranger increases your BAB, giving you a better chance to hit. Going the Finesse route could be good, but without a good STR bonus, you may hit a lot, but not do much damage. If youdo go Finesse, try to use the same weapon in each hand, and get Weapon Focus in that choice. Short Swords would seem the best option, as its a light weapon, and there are plenty of magic ones in the game.

    Elf is a good choice, not only for the DEX bonus, but the added weapons you can use. My most powerful character in several playthroughs was an elven (straight) rogue who used composite longbows. Once he got a STR belt, he upgrade to the 18 STR Composite Longbow and had it enchanted. With his high DEX, he usually went first so got the jump on most enemies. He teamed quite well with a halforc monk, who could tumble through the enemy ranks to behind the crowd, where his high AC kept him from being hit. This allowed the rogue to sneak attack again, either with the bow or ion close quarters with a long spear. With a good INT score and a decent CHR he was an excellent party leader and talker.

    His tactic was to spread out his shots throughout the enemies, to put a big hurt on them. He was always near the back, so could protect the spellcasters in case something snuck up or broke through the ranks. After the first few rounds, he went into cleanup mode and picked off all the weaken monsters, so he ended up with more kills than everyone else combined.
     
  5. cbarchuk

    cbarchuk Member

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    Thanks for the tips. Well my rogue is currently level 6. If I was going to throw in some fighter levels, where would I do it? I guess I should have done this earlier...lol. Ultimately what are the best levels to add some fighter? I really didn't want to sacrifice too much sneak attack dice but your right if I'm missing then it doesn't matter. Right now my rogue has the lowest AB dual wielding though I haven't made or found alot of power items yet. I'm working on it. Thanks for the tips again.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  6. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Keep in mind that if your wizard casts Glitterdust and blinds the enemy, EVERY ATTACK on a blind foe is a SNEAK ATTACK!!.
     
  7. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    What feats does he have now and what are his STR, DEX, and INT scores?
     
  8. cbarchuk

    cbarchuk Member

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    Right now his STR is 14, DEX is 19, and INT is 16. His feats thus far are: TWF, TWD, Weapon Finesse and I believe Weapon Focus (Short Swords).
     
  9. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Adding a few levels of fighter gives you several feats, added weapons, and some much needed HPs. I would take 2 levels now, taking power attack and cleave (not that you will do much power attacking, but you need it for cleave), then improved critical. This character would be perfect to wear the purple Elven armor, and there are plenty of magic short sword in the game.

    Once you get to 10th level of rogue you may want to jump back into fighter for some more BAD, HPs, and feats, but you lose some of the extra sneak attack damage.
     
  10. cbarchuk

    cbarchuk Member

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    Isn't level 10 the maximum level? What I seem to read the most about rogues is going 2 levels of fighter the rest rogue. What about using ranger instead of rogue and going ranger2/rogue8. That way you don't lose much in the way of skills. Is this a good alternative?
     
  11. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Well the mod removes the 10 level max to 20. Ranger would have been a good way to go, but you already took 2WF, so you would have wasted a feat. But in the future, adding 2 levels of ranger to the rogue gains the 2WF feat and a favored enemy, human would be a good choice if you get only one.

    I also like the rogue/ranger and go the archery route.

    If you go fighter, you can take the 2 level early, I like to go rogue at first level (this is always a must do, for the skill points) then go 2 levels of fighter for the feats and HPs. Then go to 10th level rogue for Crippling Strike (one of the best feats in the game!), after that you could go for 2 more levels of fighter for weapon specialization and another feat, or continue in rogue for extra sneak attack damage.


    Finally, one strange build I did was rogue/monk. A few levels of rogue to get your skills high enough for all the trap/chests, then a few levels of monk. I went to 7th for Wholeness of Body only because my party had no cleric. Then I went back to rogue and finished with a Rogue 7/monk 7. He became a decoy, running ahead and letting everything target him. Spells wouldn't effect him, he had a high AC, and could flurry with some magic Kamas and sneak attack at the same time.
     
  12. cbarchuk

    cbarchuk Member

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    Since the game was based on only going as high as level 10 do you character seem overpowered once they pass that point? Just curious. If so, then I'll just keep them at level 10 once I reach it.
     
  13. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    I don't think so. Going after the Balor with 6 level 10 characters is extremely hard, even 6 level 14 characters have a tough time. I had a Temple Bugbear one hit crit kill a level 8 rogue, so the game is still balance with the level cap gone.
     
  14. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    Personally, I think the most powerful rogue build would be:

    Elven level 19 rogue / level 1 barbarian (chooses the barbarian level at character level 20)
    Strength: 18 (chooses to increase Strength at level 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20)
    Dexterity: as high as you can roll it
    Constitution: as high as you can roll it
    Skills: Tumble: 22
    Feats:
    level 1 - Two Weapon Fighting
    level 3 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Kukri)
    level 6 - Weapon Focus (Kukri)
    level 9 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    level 10 - Crippling Strike
    level 12 - Improved Evasion
    level 15 - Two Weapon Defense
    level 18 - Dodge
    Equipment:
    Holy Axiomatic Keen Flame Burst Ice Burst Shock Burst +3 Kukri
    Holy Axiomatic Keen Flame Burst Ice Burst Shock Burst +3 Kukri
    Blue Elven Chain
    Belt of Strength +6
    Cloak of Resistance +5
    Gloves of Dexterity +6
    Ring of Protection +5
    Necklace of Health +6
    Ring of Freedom of Movement
    Boots of Speed
    Helm of Brilliance

    This character would do an extra 10d6 damage when sneak attacking.

    Be warned, this character would be ineffective against undead or elementals or Zuggtmoy or high level enemy rogues or high level enemy barbarians.

    Rogues suck at low levels! But as soon as your rogue reaches level 10 and chooses the Crippling Strike feat, your rogue will outshine fighters and barbarians for the rest of the game!

    No. With level 10 characters, you would probably never be able to beat the slave traders, the Hextor cell, Canon Thaddeus' defensive square, the 6 Noble Salamanders guarding the chest in the Fire Node, and the Hezrou Guardian (without some of your characters dying).
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  15. florian1

    florian1 Established Member Supporter

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    "Holy Axiomatic Flame Burst Ice Burst Shock Burst Keen +3 Kukri"

    Is it possible to make this weapon? If you add all the enhancement values, it comes to +14 (holy, axiomatic, and the bursting effects are +2 @, keen is +1, and +3 for the regular enhancement). The limit for non-epic weapons is supposed to be +10.
     
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