An idle question...

Discussion in 'The Keep on the Borderlands' started by Shiningted, Feb 4, 2020.

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  1. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    So, one of the reasons the Mad Wizard's Tower exisits in KotB - other than an homage to the Shy Tower of Return to KotB - was an idle desire to create a base for the players. Specfically, a magical base where PCs could sink a bucketload of money into the place, and then use it to research new spells / powers / do magical things at a more powerful rate.

    Between the low levels of KotB and the limitations of the ToEE engine, this was more an idle dream than anything I got going very far, although I read a LOT of splatbooks and did a LOT of research. There are any number of bizarre items and aborted starts in the files of KotB to things I had in mind.

    Anyways, out of nowhere, I had an idea - using magical forces to improve the players. Give them, say, +1 natural armour, or basic spell resistance, or whatever - built right into the player object. The flip side would be that this would cost the player, not just a bucketload of the excessive money that shows up later in the game, but also some XP (which is also in excess despite a lot of efforts at balancing).

    So my question is - how many XP would you pay for an innate bonus like natural armour, or elemental resistance, or whatever? 1000XP? 10000XP? And what sort of ToEE - relevant benefits would you want?

    Argue your reasons or just throw out a number you would be comfortable with, no wrong answers :)
     
  2. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    For KotB I like 1250XP for say a +1 natural armor since the lower level top of the mod makes a small bonus more valuable whereas if it had a higher top level I would say 250XP-500XP since the bonus would have a lower overall effect.
     
  3. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    Well, C08 has the tattoos that give an armor bonus for just money, so I'm not sure an XP cost is necessary for the lowest levels of those things...
     
  4. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Alright, thanks for the feedback guys, I don't think I made it quite clear but knocking down some excess XP is a prominent motivator behind this, not just an after-thought. In any case, the only tattoos in Kotb only give +2 Intimidate / -2 Diplomacy, no armour advantage (though they are set as an Amulet of Natural Armour that gives +0 advantage. No idea why). I tought of adding the magic tattoos but make the players create the ink alchemically (alchemical tattoo ink is mentioned in Unearthed Arcana as a metamagic component for Revulsion.) Didn't do it yet.

    Follow-up question - should giving an inate bonus raise or lower the value of the effect? It's something you can never lose or have stolen (unlike a ring...) but also something you can't turn off. Plus, it's not something you can sell if you are in dire straits or get something better (a +1 inate bonus as I will do it shouldn't stack with, say, a +3 Amulet of Natural Armour so your inate bonus will just become useless).
     
  5. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    I like the Idea of a non-stacking bonus since, if it stacks, you are then entering the area of giving the character an ECL adjustment with no real penalty. Unless you use something like Unearthed Arcana's rule for paying off an ECL i.e using the XP cost as a way of paying for it. In which case I like 1250xp as a base cost.
     
  6. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    Slotless items in 3.5 by default cost double their slotted versions. That's my answer.
     
  7. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    That's a good answer. Ok, we got some ground rules for costs. Now besides Natural Armour, what other benefits might potentially be magically imbued in a Mad Wizard's Lab?
     
  8. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    @Shiningted
    The simplest way to handle this is to give 'treadmill bonuses,' AKA +1-5 natural/deflection AC and +2/4/6 enhancement to each stat. Also, check the permanency spell list for ideas, as well as making all level 1-5 buff spells (except perhaps the invisibility spell series) permanent.
     
  9. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Ok, checking the permanency spell list is a great idea (and I guess i should just go through the SRD's list of magic item effects in general) but I was actually going to shie away from anything as simple as attribute bonuses. That could quickly become OP, and there are already buffs galore for every attribute, while something like a Natural Armour bonus is more uncommon (though I guess there is Barkskin).

    I'm open to skill bonuses though, brought about by being exposed to magical knowledge. Otherwise, what is coming to mind is mainly protection - Natural Armour bonus, minor elemental resistance, lowest-level spell resistance, poison resistance. Lowering the chances or impacts of things rather than negating them (so resistance, not immunity).

    Edit: Going through permanency now - Magic Fang on an animal companion would be pretty cool. I'd make it cost a bomb...
     
  10. florian1

    florian1 Established Member Supporter

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  11. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    Skill bonus is good, how bout a small resistance to spell schools like enchantment/charm.
     
  12. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    SR or spell penetration.
     
  13. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    The first (lowest level) yes, but spell penetration would probably have to be the feat.

    Resistance to schools would be awesome but would probably be beyond what we can do atm. But one other reason to do this would be let the wizard in charge of the tower attune it to a specific school, then any scrolls / potions etc of that school made would be say a level or 2 higher.
     
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