About combat options

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by cloudropis, Jun 6, 2019.

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  1. cloudropis

    cloudropis Member

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    I have some questions about combat. I played around with the many options from the radial menu a bit but there's a few I still don't get. I'm gonna list them all while explaining what I've figured out about them so far, but for conveniency's sake I'll highlight in bold underline the ones I'm straight up asking help about. They are the ones with biggest priority, while the others would be cool to hear an opinion over but I won't expect too many people to bother reading such a huge wall of text.

    Total Defense: uses a standard action for +4 AC, pretty self explanatory, useful in a pinch when you are gonna get targeted a lot or to escape from a AoO web

    Ready vs Withdrawal: you give up your turn to get it back when the opponent enters your AoO range. Is there any reason why I shouldn't always take this every turn (for characters that can't do anything else like pure HtH) I haven't reached my enemies yet? Does it replace the AoO I would get without or is the turn on top of it?

    Ready vs Spell: I haven't encountered enemy mages yet, I take it this is useful to interrupt casting animations with Magic Missile or other attacks? I'm used to RTwP games that had turns long casting animations that could be interrupted, is it still the case in a turn based game such as this?

    Ready vs Approach: uuh I can't think of useful applications for this, give me some tips here. It's either a standard or move action, not both, so it's not like I can just follow my enemies around and keep the aggression on, what is this useful for?

    Feint: use a full turn and gamble on a skill check just to skip the DEX modifier bonus to AC? What's the point of this, other than vs enemies with a very specific low wisdom/high dex combo? Sounds pretty bad until you get the feat. Unless, and the help menu is a bit vague over this, once you feint the opponent anyone's next attack reaps the no DEX to AC benefits. The guide doesn't make it very clear if it's for any next attack or just for the same character who did the feint.

    Aid another: +2 on attack rolls and wake up party members, easy stuff.

    Fight Defensively: toggle for +2 AC, -4 on attack rolls

    Disable AoO: in-game help is pretty self explanatory

    Deal non-lethal damage: no idea if this is useful for a thief character or something, don't really care either

    Cast Defensively: no AoO received, but have to pass a Concentration check

    Trip: self explanatory, I should play around with it more though as I never used it, and I have a high STR enlarged Orc who seems built very well for that

    Single Attack: equivalent of left clicking on the opponent

    Full Attack: use all of your round's turns to attack at once

    Disarm: help menu doesn't work, redirects to the general help menu and I can't find its proper page, so I googled: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Disarm . Doesn't this make trip a bit redundant? It's (trip) melee touch > STR + size vs STR/DEX + size check, against a (disarm) melee roll + size + weapon weight check. Both benefit size, both pretty much remove an opponent from the field (disarm less so probably), both are stronger against humanoid enemies, trip is stronger against enemies with bad natural DEX while disarm is better against enemies with bad offense. I'm still new to the combat system, I don't really grasp where they fit in the greater scheme of things and which niches they are trying to fill. I guess Trip is high risk/reward while disarm is a bit safer? I don't know.

    Coup de Grace: self explanatory

    Charge attack: I guess this is to help units with bad mobility at the cost of defense?

    Withdraw: help menu redirects to the wrong page. Is this the same thing as using my standard action (yellow bar) for movement? Because that one definitely triggers AoO, even though manuals says it should automatically assume I'm doing a withdraw and not trigger one.

    Run: AoS but put a loooot of distance

    Move: same as left click

    Flee Combat: help menu is bugged, redirects to main menu. I have no idea what this does and why. I hoped it would somehow terminate combat, would love it for Emridy Meadows since turning undeads there is almost counterproductive. I can't manage to make it work though.

    5-foot step: self explanatory.
     
  2. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    I'll have a crack at some of these.

    Ready vs Approach: Incredibly useful if you can't get to the enemy that round. Use your move action to get near them, or put yourself in an area where the enemy has to get past you to reach your squishies, then ready vs Approach - the first enemy that comes past should allow you to get a hit in before they strike at you. Doesn't always work (Temple+ may have fixed that).

    Full Attack and Single Attack: Useful to have full control over what you are doing. So, if your full attack is going to unleash 3 blows on an enemy that will go down in one, instead of wasting the other attacks flogging a dead orc, you can use one hit to take it down, 5' step then use the others on another enemy. Or whatever. Also allows you to reload the same round, or change weapons, or whatever, though generally you can do this on your move round anyway, but if you were going to use an attack that incorporates your Move action, then using Single attack can prevent this and ensure you still get a move action (or alternate action).

    Ready Vs Spell: Yes, to have a chance at interrupting (and spoiling) their spell-casting.

    Charge Attack: Will allow you to hit a target beyond your Move range, if you have straight line. Also, you get a +2 on the attack, but a -2 on your AC for the next round (or some penalty,. I forget what). Very useful to open proceedings.

    Flee Combat: Generally has to be used by your first PC: If you step through a door and find yourself in combat, this command will put you back outside the door. Most players find it works inconsistently.
     
  3. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Note that in Temple+, if you hit and down an opponent it will halt the sequence and let you choose a new target/action.
    Also in Temple+, if you choose Full Attack you can then designate a Trip attack for any of your individual attacks. (I think Disarm as well, not sure though)
     
  4. florian1

    florian1 Established Member Supporter

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    Feint is particularly useful for characters that have "sneak attack" ability.

    Withdraw allows you to move away from an opponent you are engaged with without giving the opponent an attack of opportunity. It only applies to the very beginning of your withdrawal action.
     
  5. cloudropis

    cloudropis Member

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    Thanks for the help.
    Does vs Approach also let you do an AoO on top of the turn you get? Or is it one or the other?
    Too bad about Flee Combat, though it was a combat ender of some kind. If that's not the case, what am I supposed to do when I turn undead a bunch of skellies who start running away in an empty field? Am I forced in combat for the next two hours until I painstakingly chase and kill every lasty one?

    Ah you are right, denying AC dex boni = sneak attack. Do I have to feint with the same character I intend to attack with later? Or can I use, for example, by Paladin to feint an enemy and then use my Rogue's to attack and reap the bonus?
    I'm gonna test withdraw a bit, thanks
     
  6. florian1

    florian1 Established Member Supporter

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    Ready vs Approach: you can get both the readied attack and an Attack of Opportunity if you have either 10' reach for your size (think Enlarge Person) or a reach weapon. Also note that when you use the readied action, you have the option to take a 5' step.
     
  7. florian1

    florian1 Established Member Supporter

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    For Undead that run away away to the four corners of the map, I believe if they get far enough away, combat might end, or maybe you will gain access to the World Map.

    Eventually they will hit the edge of the map, in which case you can try to surround them to finish them off.
     
  8. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    You get an A of opportunity as long as the enemy enters the yellow circle showing your weapons area of reach
     
  9. Oleg Ben Loleg

    Oleg Ben Loleg Established Member Supporter

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    Flee Combat: Is a little bit inconsistent but still useful. Beware as it provokes attack of opportunity against any character within reach of an opponent. At least I recall a fight where I used it ending up with two dead characters in the safe retreat area.
    Turning Undead flee: When my turning of undead is still too weak to destroy them and they only run away making combat last forever I always reload and don't use it.
     
  10. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

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    Charge attack is useful at lower levels when you only have a single attack: If you want to get your melee types into battle, this does it and gives them a bonus to hit which increases the chance of making a kill (if you have a level 1 fighter with a greatsword and a strength bonus, you'll likely kill any enemy you face at that level with one hit, provided you do hit). Later on, it's more effective to make a free 5' step and ready vs approach, because you get your iterative (multiple) attacks when the enemy approaches (and possibly an attack of opportunity first if you have reach).
    If you have a problem with undead running away in Emridy Meadows, the best option is probably to stay put. Turned undead will eventually stop being turned, and chasing them can lead you into more enemies, as you have no doubt discovered. Use bludgeoning weapons vs skeletons to bypass damage resistance. Another option is to wait a while until you have enough levels that (with a decent CHA score, use of Eagle's Splendour, and possibly the Improved Turning feat), you start destroying low-level undead rather than making them flee.
     
  11. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    Greater Turning from the sun domain does just fine :D
     
  12. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

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    Yes, that too! Though you have to select it to begin with.
     
  13. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    I gotta say, once I discovered Greater Turning, I never made a non-Pelor cleric again.
     
  14. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    Ehlonna also has the Sun domain
     
  15. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Wha? The goddess of unicorns, furbies and hemp? You seriously want me to player as her cleric?

    Challenge accepted! :confused:

    According to Wikipedia, "Each cleric of Ehlonna chooses a species of plant as their special ward." I'm very tempted to mod the whole Black Jay thing to allow my new cleric to argue that Hemlock is her special plant and it must stay in the fields punishing sheep or the Goddess will be angry!
     
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