2D maps simplified gaming

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by anatoliy, Nov 11, 2018.

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  1. anatoliy

    anatoliy Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I was wondering, if someone before have tried using 2D map without actual walls as simplified custom module in the ToEE engine.

    The idea is to create Simple Designer tool, that will allow taking any 2D map, rotating it and squeezing, and have ready background.

    Additionally I'm considering adding 2D clipping walls substitution objects and marking areas as impassable, and then converting it to the actual ToEE format and finishing job using WorldEd.

    So the question is - would it be weird, if walls would not be visible, only grounds?

    Pictures above displaying two possibilities I'm considering right now. Either go with simplified 2D module creation or use tools like World Builder and then convert data to ToEE maps.
     
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  2. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Yes, folks have done this - the original Hickory Branch was done this way. Try again by all means. Ask or search around in here and you can find the exact isometric perspective that the ToEE engine uses to find something similar.

    But yes, grounds only (no walls) would be a bit weird. Re the second map, try to minimise areas where you are walking behind walls - so no narrow mazes - and the ToEE engine can do the rest. And you don't have to add '2D clipping walls substitution objects', just use WorldEd to import some clipping stuff (DAGs for memory, not my area of expertise) and size accordingly.
     
  3. anatoliy

    anatoliy Member

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    Thanks @Shiningted!

    The main reason, why there are so few modules is complexity of new modules creation. It's very time consuming. This is @Allyx words, but I agree completely.

    So easiest approach is to create map structure on some editor and then import it into ToEE engine, and then finish up in WorldEd toolkit.

    So Dungeon Builder from Hobbyte was found abd I thought to give it a try. This pic above took be about two hours to create.

    Although the tool is pricy, $50. But still I was inspired.

    The DB has a bit different isometric angle, and would gave to be re-matrix to be usable in toee. But this is not a problem.

    Still, there are few problems.
    Clippers is first that arises. I do believe that DB save format, which is in xml, could be converted to 3d clippers in toee. But it is very hard programming, math and geometry calculations. I've talk to DB dev, he said it's possible.

    Without clippers there would be problems with light, visibility and so on.

    Toggling impassable terrain is not a problem, I've already did this programmatically .

    Another problem is narrow corridors , which are very common in printed modules.

    Getting rid of narrow rooms means redesign. And that is big problem for ne, as I want classic printed modules to be imported into toee as much unchanged as it could be.
     
  4. anatoliy

    anatoliy Member

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    Now, another approach is 2D maps without walls.

    And I'm really glad you've posted opinion that it would be weird , @Shiningted. Because I too think so.

    But it would be so much easier to create modules!

    Moreover, I do believe that rooms description are the key to solve this problem. Every time PC open new room dialog with Narrator would open with description what exactly do they see. Just like in tabletop game, I'm DMing with my newbies currently .

    Description would help immensely to imagine what graphic designer would have to encompass in background .
     
  5. Badsirbrian

    Badsirbrian Member

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    I was testing out paint.net for feasibility to get 2D to isometric for Against the Giants Modules. I found the distort this! plugin or the quadrilateral reshape can get you the floor outline and a mask you can use for laying down tiles of texture. I just took a previous ToEE map I was working on as a semi-transparent layer to use as a guide to get the isometric angles correct. To get it looking right took 3 steps, rotate the 2d map about 45 degrees and then use the distort this! to change the left and the right sides depending on what direction the wall is facing, or work it into a diamond shape for the floor covering texture and then 3rd use the zoom plugin to get the wall or floor to the correct scale without distorting the quadrilateral shape you have achieved. On step 2 you can line up the distortion angle with a couple of long walls of that previously drawn map as a guide to get it looking just right. You then do not want to transform normally by moving the corners to resize it as that would distort the angles when you stretch it out, the zoom plugin helps you keep all of those angles intact while making the tile bigger or smaller to get the scale you want.

    I re-used the same technique to take squares of texture and transfer them into large texture tiles I can lay down. I can then invert this selection you see in the picture and trim off the excess for the most part to get the floor covered first...there still would be some eraser work but with a decent selection down you can zip over that pretty fast. I also saved a flat, and the 2 main isometric angles as wall cover samples and just copied and pasted those into new layers and you can match up the edges or sometimes you want to blend and then come back and create some randomness so your eyes do not pick up too much of a distracting repetitive pattern.

    This is a little labor intensive but yields good results.
     

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  6. anatoliy

    anatoliy Member

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    Although I applause your eagerness to transform 2D map to isometric, it is, unfortunately not the biggest issue here.

    After the rotation you will need to apply sector tiles mapping which currently is quite tideous work on WorldEd, and even harder in World Builder. Last one requires non isometric tiling, and it's quite intensive labor too :)

    My goal is to produce quick and semi easy way to introduce 2D map to ToEE engine as quickly as possible.

    1) Place 2D picture.
    2) Configure 5 feet in pixels number for zoom . It's 1 pixel for 1 inch .
    3) Paint impassable sector tiles.
    4) Preview in isometric .
    5) Export backgrounds splitted and generate sector data using one click .

    And bum, you have 20% of module creation done in an hour instead of few days .
     
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