Great White Hype?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Emirkol the Chaotic, Sep 2, 2008.

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  1. Emirkol the Chaotic

    Emirkol the Chaotic Proud Polytheist

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    Just got done fighing the White Dragon in Verbobonc.
    Just a question, or three....

    Does the dragon ever land? During the entire battle the dragon remainded hovering over one spot, never moving or landing. It still attacked as normal and was able to use it's breath weapon and spells. However, none of my meele fighters were able to attack. I had to bring it down by spells alone.

    In addition, all of the arrows I fired at it seemed to be ineffective (not just misses). I took a look at some of the old rules and noticed that older dragons become immune to normal arrows but this one was classed as an adult. Has this changed with the 3.5 rules? (The arrows were not magical)

    Finally, it also appeared that the "Dragon Fear" completely paralyzed my party. I was able to move about 3 (out of 7) into position before the fear text appeared. After that, each party member would activate as normal (cast spells, fire arrows) but could not move. Is this a new effect as well from the 3.5 rules?

    Other than that, a great supplement! I found it a bit challengeing even with a party of 7
    7th level characters.
     
  2. Basil the Timid

    Basil the Timid Dont Mention the War

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    Emrikol, melee is possible - try flanking. Tough fight for my injured 8 level 8 party. The strategy used was to send the 2 rogues and monk who very easily evaded the breath. One rogue got scared. However, as far as RAW is concerned, sneak attack is only possible if the target is only up to one size larger.

    From PnP experience, I can say that the toughest dragons are those that do Fly by Attack and stay in the air. Unfortunately, I am sure there are other limitations aside from the map size that prevented Allyx from implementing the death from above strategy.
     
  3. Emirkol the Chaotic

    Emirkol the Chaotic Proud Polytheist

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    Thanks for the info, Basil.

    However, it does not appear to explain why all of my characters were unable to move after the first round. I've had fear affect my party in past games and they all just run (refuse to approach). This situation seemed entirely different. In fact, Remove Fear, did nothing to alleviate the situation. Is this non-movement an effect of dragon fear? And again, in case I missed (or misunderstood) it, is the dragon immune to normal arrows, even when fired from a magical bow? Granted I didn't test the few +1 arrows and bolts I had...
     
  4. Rodzaju

    Rodzaju Member

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    The dragon has damage reduction 10 unless the attack is magical.
    It's only immune to your arrows if you do 10 or less damage.
    Get a composite bow & you might do 1 or 2 points of damage.
    You'd be much better off getting a magic bow.

    You also can melee it.
    Don't target the dragon itself.
    Look for the spot where the dragon would be if it lowered itself to ground level.
    You should see the red circle.
    Target this to attack it in melee.
     
  5. matmaisan

    matmaisan Kobold lurker

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    Emirikol,
    The dragon's first round action is often to invoke a mist. I believe it is a solid fog, as per 4th-level spell. The SRD spell description describes it thus:

    So it does explain the arrows (which I know always fail to pass the concealment check), and might explain the sort of paralysis you witnessed (although I've seen that happen in other occasions, and seems to me it is a more general bug).

    Regarding the fighters being unable to hit it, I believe this might be an effect akin to the fog cloud giving concealment again, making 25-50% of the attacks miss... Also, if your characters are enlarged (and therefore have reach -- of 10'-15' depending on the weapon -- when they attack, they might automatically miss because the enemy is assumed to have full concealment).
     
  6. matmaisan

    matmaisan Kobold lurker

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    I had saved a game in the middle of that combat, so I could check. My enlarged cleric using the radiant ranseur from an adjacent square striked twice, and failed to pass the 50% concealment check. Another character, using a ranged weapon from across the map failed because the miss chance was 100%...

    But this is an odd fog, since it also applied the 100% miss chance to a scorching ray cast by my wizard. If it were a solid fog, 5-ft steps would not be possible, but my characters can take 5ft-steps normally...

    So basically it is one hell of a fog, but doesn't seem to match any of the spell descriptions I find.
     
  7. matmaisan

    matmaisan Kobold lurker

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    Well, when you enter the fog, you get a 'fog cloud' descriptor over the character's image.
     
  8. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    it is a fog cloud spell that the dragon casts, if there is a problem with the spell itself that causes movement to be restricted, that had nothing to do with me, blame Troika there, the fear effect is pretty nasty, Remove Fear (and a bunch of other spells that remove/disable other spells) are buggy at best, but protection from (alignment ) should prevent you from being affected by it.

    It is a great fight vs the white dragon. when testing the dragon build I was fighting 3 of them in the arena with a group of 8 12- 15th level characters, and got beat almost every time.
     
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