Icewind Dale: ToEE - Total Conversion

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale Total Conversion' started by Allyx, May 7, 2016.

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  1. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I'll have a play with the static image idea in a bit, the image for the main menu screen is similar to the splash screen I made before, so one or the other is going to change before final release...

    About the legal ramifications of reproducing IWD in it's entirety albeit in a new engine, is there a way to check with an installer if IWD is installed on a computer before allowing the installation of the ToEE IWD module? I don't think any of us want to do jail time for piracy.
     
  2. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I don't think InnoSetup (what we use for our stuff) has that capability.
     
  3. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    You could merely add a disclaimer to your installer that has to be accepted in order to complete the install ... i.e. This modification of the TOEE game and the representation of IWD and any trade marked media is solely for the purpose of celebrating this wonderfully creative product and is not intended for sale or resale, or for anything other than paying homage to a great game.
     
  4. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Yeah the disclaimer is pretty much a given anyway, but is that enough to bypass anti piracy laws, or are other steps required to insure that only those who have purchased the full version are permitted to use the mod?

    Baldur's Gate reloaded for example is a NWN2 total conversion mod, while ownership of the original Baldur's gate game doesn't seem to be required, it is certainly encouraged.

    The obvious difference is that while they had to remake the maps in 3d, we are merely reproducing existing maps from a non-freeware source.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  5. DarkStorm

    DarkStorm Established Member

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    As soon as you redistribute anything from IWD, you violate their copyright.

    At the end of the day, you should be trying to mitigate the risk of litigation from the copyright holder. (Whoever that is for IWD).
    A disclaimer that doesn't actually prevent people who never bought IWD from playing might or might not be enough to disuade them from issuing DMCA claims.
    The most substantial way to circumvent copyright issues is to not redistribute anything from IWD. Realistically that can only be done by extracting all necessary data from an IWD installation on the user's disk, like the BG1 total conversion for BG2 used to do.
    If you can't do that though, it becomes mostly about how much risk you're willing to take.
     
  6. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Would it be possible to make use of temple+ to pull the data required from an existing IWD installation? EG. maps, sound files, videos etc..?

    We know ToEE isn't configured to recognise many of the file formats used by the IE games themselves. Pulling the data directly would I assume require additional conversion software to be added to make the alterations necessary to convert .wbm to .bik, and from .tis to .jpg and sound files into .wav files so ToEE can process them.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  7. ineth

    ineth Member

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    We could have an installation script which does that.
    I.e. like the hypothetical automated conversion tool that was discussed earlier, except that to keep it simple it wouldn't cover all the complex and messy aspects of the game data (characters, dialogs, quests, etc.), but instead only get the "large" assets like map backgrounds, sounds, and videos.

    Automatically extracting images, sounds, and videos from an IWD installation is feasible with the help of WeiDU or other tools.
    The script that controls the extraction could be written in Python to make it cross-platform compatible. (Please no Microsoft Windows BAT script... ;))

    There would be some complications like the doors that have to be manually removed from maps - I suppose you could store just the changed parts of each map with the total conversion mod, and let the install script automatically extract the original maps from IWD and overlay the changed parts on top of it.

    What I don't know, is if the ToEE side of the conversion can easily be automated. Like converting videos to the proprietary Bink format. Or the "sectoring" of the back background images into the map format that ToEE understands.
     
  8. ineth

    ineth Member

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    Yeah but as long as users need to buy their game in order to use the total conversion, they won't complain.

    If you redistribute everything, i.e. effectively give users a way to download and play the entire game (in another engine) without buying an original copy, they might not be happy. But even if you did that, I'm sure Beamdog's reaction wouldn't be to send lawyers to destroy you - they'd just kindly ask you to remove the download.

    Beamdog is not some heartless corporation - they're a small company, and pretty friendly with the modding community. In fact, IWD:EE started out as a fan-made total conversion mod that converted the original IWD content to the original BG2:ToB engine. Then after Beamdog had created the Enhanced Edition engine based on the BG2:ToB engine and used it to release BG:EE and BG2:EE, they took over the existing IWD-in-BG2 conversion mod (with permission from the original modder of course!), and used it to create IWD:EE.... :)
     
  9. DarkStorm

    DarkStorm Established Member

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    Both is possible. But from a complexity standpoint, offline conversion (during/after installation) is easier to do and should probably be preferred. It also maintains compatibility with vanilla.

    What could be used is the knowledge from Temple+ regarding the ToEE file formats.

    Checked around a bit more: Videos are problematic, just as i remembered. There is no open source BINKW encoder that I know of. The ffmpeg implementation sadly only supports decoding. We could add mp4 playback support to T+, but I don't know what could be done about vanilla.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  10. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Really I'd just roll the dice and hope for the best rather than get mired in quasi-permission-based efforts, Al. (They'll probably be mistaken anyway unless you get professional consultation from an attorney with expertise in the associated practice.)

    In practical terms, the worst that will happen is you/we get a C&D order, which assuming it gets complied with, will likely result in nothing further. (Usually entities don't actually sue other entities without realistic hope of remuneration, and being as Co8 is a not-for-profit entity with no assets, and its members are probably equally penniless in general ;), they won't get all bloodhoundy.)

    Most likely outcome is nothing happens at all, but you have to be principally prepared to scrap all your work at a moment's notice.
     
  11. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    As for the doors, so far just removing the replacement tiles at the bottom of the maps (with the closed door animation bits) has been sufficient, since the doors are open by default, and for IWD at least those doors all seem to open inwards and may as well be part of the interior wall of the building.

    The trouble is all chests are open by default also, I have been replacing those sections with the closed tile versions on the maps to make it easier to just pop a chest on top with one if ToEE's chests.

    Using original maps from an IWD installation, cropped to exclude the closed tiles on the Icewind dale maps, then mounting those with the top left corner at pixel 0,0 onto a black background with the correct dimensions for splitting into chunks for ToEE, and converted from .tis or .png to .jpg may be possible... awfully long winded to say, and possibly laggy in practice - or even requiring conversion during installation of the game mod.



    Likewise converting videos from IWD twice to make them playable in ToEE would also be time consuming but possible.

    A similar method is probably needed for audio files as well *sigh*
     
  12. DarkStorm

    DarkStorm Established Member

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    How would you even convert the video files though? I don't know of any bink video encoder you could use.
     
  13. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Most of the videos are a narrator reading off a book, which might as well be presented as slides. Or, just include them as converted files. I think the critical thing to do is to ensure that you can't play the game without having IWD, which IMO is sufficiently achieved by excluding the map art (save for the tiles that need doctoring like doors/chests).

    My advice is not to worry about it too much right now, and have some faith that the necessary tools will materialize ;) Can't make any promises but it's something that I'm also interested in pursuing, possibly 4-5 months from now (which is my estimate of how long it'll take to do the pythonized class definitions + necessary UI overhaul for T+). I imagine it'll be quite a while before the first release anyway so it shouldn't hold you back.
     
  14. XVicious

    XVicious Established Member

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    Rad tools from rad games could be used for converting to bink

    they have the necessary dll plugins for converting video formats to bink

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/14713/movie-file-format

    this link thread shows the needed video format encoder to get the proper translation

    to the bink encoder.

    you can use 7zip tools to extract and install all the files from

    IWD. you just need a good C program to do the directory and file searches to pass to

    7zip and create the directory index needed (If you plan to pack from a Iwd Disk or previous install you wwould need a c program to validate the files passed to
    7zip or just something like Xcopy)

    just a suggestion.

    you could also use the windows install packager creater

    iexpress.exe to create the compressed installer that runs

    the install app and extracts any tools or plugins needed during the install.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  15. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Why does it need to pull all of the files for conversion?

    Why not have it just pull a single file that is easily converted just for varification of owning the original game?
     
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