Circle of Eight Modpack 5.9.x/5.9.xNC General Commentary & Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Necroticpus, Aug 27, 2010.

Remove all ads!
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ank

    Ank Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    @Ranth
    Robbery at the hostel - u take it from darlia......
    Frozen assets-a 2 in pack with the gnome's drow problem (same area of map)...
    Family turmoil-u take it from viscont's idiotic child
    Catching the 'cousin' yep involves canning both adviser and darlia(but that would be for the reason of plotting an asasination on viscont, but u can't know about that plan unless u do some dirty work for darlia, and of corse that involves geting past quests like :Robbery at the hostel; A framework for a murder (wich despite my hardest try seems imposible; if yr target needs to be canned while patroling the streets)
    And i'm still clueless as to how i'm suposed to locate the slavers (my intuition points towards darlia but then again .... i could just be wrong assuming darlia and the slavers are part of the same syndicate :confused:)
    About the guard kiling thing' well i only tried to nail guards patroling the streets(deserted areas no sign of any people in sigth) planted the dagger and left but somehow i'm magicaly' geting involved in combat by guards simply by moving on the streets (i presume since they atak me they some how saw me do the kiling despite no one was near those areas and it was night time :twitch:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
  2. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    1
    @Ank,

    Thanks for all of the good info. I somehow screwed up the assassination quests due to bugs. I will try them again on the next run through.

    If the slavers have the kids, do you think they would be hanging around a town? ;)

    Also, I have not done the quest involving placing a dagger on the guard. However, if you keep getting attacked on the streets, have you tried finding a building with an alone guard and killing him there?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
  3. Necroticpus

    Necroticpus Cthulhu Ftaghn!

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,379
    Likes Received:
    0
    Could you get some of the slavers to join your party if you attack the kids? I mean if you didn't attack the slavers and don't get close enough to them and go around them, coming up to the kids from the backdoor? Would they be like "Yeah! You're pretty cool! Can I join your party so we can kidnap, molest, torture and kill children together?"
     
  4. mmonagle

    mmonagle Established Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    0
    I had totally missed this. Thanks for pointing it out. I thought that the signpost was simply a decoration or something on the side of the building.

    I have experienced the same thing. I went back to the other 2 locations and found that the halfling paladin's body is back where you first find him but the elf is not. It just appears that the half-orc and the halfling's bodies do not disappear over time. I have seen this sort of thing before. Several versions back, I had Turuko and Kobort join my party and then I 'accidently' killed them with friendly fire. Their bodies made their way back to the Inn of the Welcome Wench and remained their for the rest of the game.
     
  5. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    1
    I never got the chance to arrest them. I was forced to kill them all on the spot.

    I always wondered why I made the comment to the jailer about the prisoners being something else than criminals. I wonder if it a future quest in the making... :)
     
  6. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,038
    Likes Received:
    42
    That's almost verbatim of the disclaimer I gave here: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8364

    They'll buff more in the update. As for strategizing the way you describe, is there anything preventing you from doing that? At any rate, I don't know how else you could find out anything about anyone without talking to them, or talking to somebody at least, but there's nobody else there to consult ... because they're on the run and avoiding people. Do you mean via Detect Evil or something like that? Anyway, IMO the only alignments that would be justified in attacking them arbitrarly are CN, NE, and CE. Still, it isn't my purpose to tell you how to play. If you want to circumvent the dialog/story, by all means, fireball away. Otherwise, as I said in the other thread, you'll just have to live with it. Is that one thing really so bad, considering all the other advantages you have? (A mind vs. an AI routine, better/more flexible tactics, maybe even more powerful characters, etc.)

    Nothing is fair. ;) The purpose of this whole thing was to a. provide a challenging battle, b. provide some story/drama beyond what ToEE normally delivers (go to location x, kill enemy y :yawn: ), and c. take you out of your comfort zone, which it clearly is doing.

    As for other ways of handling it, I don't think different positions or even buffing will make that much of a difference. When you just walk up to them and start fighting (like in all the temple bugbear battles), if you get initiative and have spells available like Necro did, it's over before it starts.

    I'm really beginning to see the limitations of high level content for this reason: whereas with low to mid level stuff there's always strategy involved, at high level, things seem reduced to turn-based 'save or die.' Everybody's got insta-kill spells, so there's little of the incremental dynamic change that makes most battles so engaging with this engine. It's just like rolling two-sided die to see who gets to kill who first. Not so much fun, but why would a 20th level wizard fiddle around with Hold Person or whatever when he can just kill you instantly?

    The party doesn't actually belong to any faction; factions are just a way of representing how different NPCs react to you, so having the kids be in the Hommlet faction would just make Hommlet citizens like them. And I don't think you can have three different sides in a battle anyway. If the kids joined the slavers faction they would want to attack you the moment combat started.

    What is it that's wrong with it as is, anyway?

    No, they're all from Mol (an actual Greyhawk town south of Verbo, btw. ;) ).

    Everything that Captain Absalom mentions actually exists. The inns and taverns are the Spruce Goose, Jylee's Inn, and the Maroon Moon. The Archer's Eye is the weapons/armor shop.

    The Verbobonc guards will confront you if you have the Constable Killer rep (kill 2 or more guards) or the Verbobonc Slaughterer rep (kill 2 or more citizens), so you must have killed more than the one guard if they're coming after you. And yes they do just magically know at that point (the rep states that you were seen). There's really no other way to do it. Besides, Verbobonc is a populated city - it's really not safe to go around killing people, outside in particular. You might want to avoid the guards if you get those reps, ha-ha. ;)

    I'll check and see if there was some solution used for other NPCs to avoid this, but I suspect it's universal. (Most NPCs don't end up fighting you. Those few that do - Raimol, Zert, etc. end up lying dead at there original locations, I'm pretty sure. In cases like the Moathouse Ambush, they don't because those are actually differnt versions of the same NPC and the original versions are scripted to turn off if there 'dead' flags are set.) We could script the originals to turn off when they die, but then you wouldn't be able to loot them.

    You don't get the join routine if you've got fewer than 2 open spots in your party. You also don't get that option if you've already killed any of the others.

    ~

    ION, 5.9.1 should be ready soon, so if you've been holding off playing until that arrives, it won't be much longer. Watch the news thread for an upcoming changelog update! :)

    [edit]

    ... and as always, thanks for all the feedback. You're doing a great service by helping to hash all this stuff out. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
  7. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    1
    Just saw the patch notes... Amazing work Gaear!!! Thanks so much.
     
  8. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    6

    I have had three faction in a fight, but maybe you fixed it, when fighting a random world map encounter of 1 ettin and 8 hobgoblins. The ettin smashed and cleaved several hobgoblins, who were targeting my party and fighting the ettin at the same time.
     
  9. mmonagle

    mmonagle Established Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    0
    That has actually been around for a bit. I have encountered it a few times too. I believe that players find the whole thing amusing so it has been left as is.
     
  10. mmonagle

    mmonagle Established Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think I found another bug:

    20) on the fourth level of the temple, there is a room on Senshock's side that houses a very large group of ogre's and bugbears. The ogre that is in a small, open room which is closest to the west entrance does not battle. I have reloaded a few times now and redid the battle to be sure. He only comes out if you make a point of hitting him. After I had cleaned out the rest of the room, I was even able to walk right up to him and initiate a conversation. He responded with a floating 'What do you want?'

    I also reloaded my game to a point before I battled Senshock and redid my fight with him. I got him to flee again - he simply yells 'No' and teleports away. I then went to VB and he was not in the Bazaar. Just reporting that it appears to be consistent.

    I encountered a red cloaked person running out of the room I had purchased at Jylee's Inn. He disappeared so quickly however that I was unable to do anything. Just wanted to see if this should be the case.

    Finally, I was reading over the posts on the money stockpiling and how the cost of the castle in VB takes a bite out of it. Just a thought, could its price be raised to something like 250,000 gold? I think that the castle is quite cool and is worth more than the present asking price.
     
  11. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,038
    Likes Received:
    42
    Thanks, I'll look and see what's up.

    Yes. That may become slightly clearer in 5.9.1.

    Maybe. We don't want it to be out of reach of the common player though.

    @Ranth, how much did you charge for the Hommlet castle in WotGS?
     
  12. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    1
    100,000 too. Great minds think alike.

    However, I had the backstory that forced you to clear out Robin Hood from the Grove for lumber and the dwarfs from the quarry/mine for stone.
     
  13. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,622
    Likes Received:
    538
    Personally, I love it.

    But since you prefer the old value, and other people might like it one way or another, I've set the function to read user preference from a file -

    speedup.ini, located in modules\ToEE.

    The file should contain a single number between 1 and 6 -
    1 being the old speedup() value,
    6 being even faster than what I posted before ("don't blink or you'll miss it" ;) ).
    2-5 are inbetween.

    Also, added restup() function to t.py, which heals and memorizes spells for your party, and a teleport shortcut to the Hommlet moneychanger and to Verbobonc.

    By the way, is anyone else using t.py?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  14. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,622
    Likes Received:
    538
    Just read the changelist for 5.9.1, looks impressive as hell!

    I should comment that the Verbobonc Signpost looks like some sort of mirror. I can see how some players would miss it (though I'd expect players to look around for a signpost, given how Nulb and Hommlet both have one; still, some apparently have missed it).

    Oh, and regarding the Slavers setup - it could be amusing to have them fireball YOU with no advance warning, instead :)

    Gives me an idea for a random wilderness encounter...
     
  15. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,038
    Likes Received:
    42
    I guess I sort of assumed that the first thing most players would do is go into City Hall, and the first thing they would do there is talk to Captain Absalom, who among other things will tell you all about the city, as well as how to navigate it via the signpost, and the signpost's location. Not sure what else to do beyond that. :shrug:

    The Verbo signpost was initially the same post as in Hommlet and Nulb, but after a while it started bothering me that they apparently couldn't do any better than a few planks of wood nailed together in the big city. ;)

    Thanks for the t stuff. :)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Our Host!