Circle of Eight Modpack 5.9.x/5.9.xNC General Commentary & Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Necroticpus, Aug 27, 2010.

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  1. Ank

    Ank Established Member

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    Vb city issues
    1)First chat with Wilfrick if yr dialog end phrase is : 'understood' when u try to talk again to him u no longer have the options of asking : 1) Do u belive the gnomes.... (which points u towards lerick) 2)Where can i find price zook (rather insignificat but still u should be able to learn' the about the price's location any time )
    2)First chat with Ariel if u chose the line : That sounds interesting.... u can no lonoger ask 'Who's this powerfull vizard' (again rather insignificant but an interesting clue...)
    Both of these chats (should alow u to acces those options at least once , maybe put something in yr log boock under rumors perhaps ?? (like : learned of a mysterios power full wizard...' / wilfrik's advisor seems rather distrustfull about the gnome's issues' or smth like that)
    3)About the 3 escaped convicts: i rounded all of them up in Hommlet they ambushed me (smellt that one coming (so i stripped the 2 convicts in my party (maybe u shouldn't alow theyr items to be removed) ) i killed them, reported theyr deths and surprise gluntur's naked body was lying on the floor in the room at the spruced goose inn' :))
    4)Under the gnome quarters a battle with some drows (2x rogues xbow were in ambush position on the sides of the door) and upon atemting to loot the 2 rogue drows the game CTD (tried it 2x times)
    5)After finishing of the drow and dragon went to wilfrick to report about my findings and despite not eaven talking to darla or adviser' i had an eye' dialog option to tell Wilfrick about the conspiracy' against him and if i solicited his advice on how to prooceed' i got cape's and shields and got told what i should do (however if re-reinitiate that dialog loop i could get as many capes&shields as i wanted (stoped looping after geting them 4 times)
    Despite having the mission to arest darla and advisor i could not initiate a conversation with adviser about it (aproached him at the inn as instructed) and about darla : i can't find her anywhere in town :twitch:
    So i take it i pretty much botched my chance at the slaver's quest the moment i nailled' the advisor at the innn and failed to find darla
    Well since i havent any saves to rollback that far i'm gona have to restart (after i'm done with the zuggy's story.... probably gonna use a new party alignment as well).
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
    Ank, Sep 7, 2010
    #151
  2. mmonagle

    mmonagle Established Member

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    Has anyone gotten Senshock to Verbobonc? I have not gotten him to it in the past versions but I wanted to do it this time. So I battled him in the temple and knocked his health down until he fled. I thought that was all it took.

    I have visited VB since and went to the Bazarre of the Bizarre and no Senshock. I figured he needed more time so I stepped out did some things, rested for 8 hours, and came back. Then I went to the room you can buy in VB and rested there for a week. I went back to the bazarre and still no Senshock. I then passed a few days there on the street but no dice. So I again went back to my room and passed 11 days. Didn't make a difference. I then went and visited Nulb, killed a few things in the temple, and then headed back to VB. Still no Senshock. Is there something else I need to do to trigger his arrival there?
     
    mmonagle, Sep 7, 2010
    #152
  3. mmonagle

    mmonagle Established Member

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    I don't think that you have botched it unless you have killed off Wilfrick. He will give you the slavers quest. You might have to visit his residence at night time though - that is how I received it. Worth a try at least.
     
    mmonagle, Sep 7, 2010
    #153
  4. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    During the slavers fight, toward the end the last two slavers started killing children and not my party. The woman casted AoE spells on them and the rogue guy was stabbing them in the face. Could we set the slavers to the same group as the kids? It may be because, and not sure, that I cast prayer over everyone.

    I ended up getting no reward since they killed them all :(

    @Mmonagle: What level were you when you fought the slavers?
     
    Ranth, Sep 7, 2010
    #154
  5. Ank

    Ank Established Member

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    I see quite a few managed to solve the slavers quest so a q: just what are u suposed to do after geting the quest from wilfrik
    Also has anyone managed to solve the 'framework for a murder' quest ?? u are suposed to kill a patrol man and plant a dagger on him without beeing seen (tryed my luck on several guards on deserted streets at night and no luck ... starting to think St Cuthberth is playing with me :evilgrin: )
     
    Ank, Sep 7, 2010
    #155
  6. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    This might be why you found it easy. Do the conversation and it gets a bit trickier.
     
    Ranth, Sep 7, 2010
    #156
  7. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    That's clipping data from the firepit that used to be there (from the original ogre cave map). It was postulated some time ago that the young dragons probably wouldn't build fires, so we got rid of the pit, but the clipping data (what makes your characters look like they're behind obstructions) stayed.

    That was an Allyx original. His intent was to have infinite spiders like with the Moathouse rats so that you never really get the upper hand in that location. The gnomes will just have to live with it. ;)

    Just to be clear on this, the fact that you can get the Wilfrick job from Darlia without actually going through the whole process of getting 'in' with the SB, and then being able to tell Wilfrick that Darlia asked you to kill him, are both bugs. It will not be that way in the update. You have to go through a LOT with the SB before they entrust you with a job like that, and it isn't delivered in such an off-hand fashion. Likewise, you don't get to narc them out to Wilfrick without having put in your time.

    Already caught the white dragon response bug, and I'll check out the cousins' KOS script.

    Devil's advocate, part 2: them "likely being up to no good" is grounds for execution? ;) Seriously, if we were able to implement a full compliment of consequences and repercussions, that kind of behavior would be met with apprehension and incarceration. You can't (shouldn't be able to) just run around executing whomever you like without reason or provocation. Wilfrick gave you authority to kill the slavers, yes, but you have to ascertain that they are the slavers first ... which you can only do by questioning them.

    The point I'm trying to make here is that, as authors of this stuff, we have to be able to make certain assumptions about the player: namely, that they won't meta-game and that they'll play within their alignment. You're of course free not to do either of those things, but it will only harm your own experience ultimately, as there's no way we can possibly account for everything everyone might do outside of those limitations. We have to create it as though it's always being experienced by the first-time player, basically, and we have to assume that the player is going about it honestly.

    /end lecture. ;)

    In a perfect world, yes, you'd be able to ask anyone anything at any time. But in the CRPG world, we have to make concessions. There are limited NPC flags, so in order to have NPCs not say the same things over and over again like they do in Hommlet (personally I hate that), we'd have to use global flags for each and every thing you could ask to make them not repeat themselves and look stupid. There are actually limited global flags too, so that's not normally going to happen.

    We could maybe add some of those things to rumors ...

    Yeah, we should probably make their inventories restricted somehow. Nothing we can do about 'stockholm syndrome' that I can think of atm; that's just a weird engine thing.

    It's supposed to be a simple flag that gets set when he escapes from the temple, but it sounds like that's not firing reliably. I'll check it out. No amount of waiting will affect it if the flag's not set.

    No, the kids can't join the Slavers' faction because then they'll be hostile toward you. ;) They're supposed to be apathetic, and they're normally not involved until Tarah casts certain AoE spells that pull them in somehow. That wasn't really by design, but I kind of like the notion that eventually she will flip out, see red, and just start killing everybody. Plus it adds some urgency to deal with them before it gets to that point. It is mean and harsh and unfair, and that's just how it goes, just like in RL. ;)

    Find the slavers! ;)

    Have you been 'power word: reloading?' Just play it through and go with the flow. Or do you mean you've killed several guards, successfully, and Darlia has not advanced the plot (or nothing else has happened)? If so, that's a bug.
     
    Gaear, Sep 7, 2010
    #157
  8. mmonagle

    mmonagle Established Member

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    I will concede the point to this lecture. At the same time, it would be considered fair to give players a chance. Running the present conversation the way it runs, you go through a dialogue with no choices that results in something that would make most gamers cry foul (I'm trying not to give away spoilers here). I believe about every other conversation with evil-doers in this game gives you a choice - this one does not. So I'm going to find it hard to play along.

    At the same time, when I approach a group that meets a lot of the criteria for the gang I am searching for, I am going to take precautions. It was made very clear that they are quite dangerous. It would prudent for me to buff up my group and to place some invisible characters behind them as a precaution. I could then initiate a conversation. I'm really not going to walk up to this group and just say 'what's up?' I feel that it would be fair to let them do the same - they could simply say that they saw me coming. However, I don't recall any buffing on their part.

    The short of it is, this battle has a lot of potential. I can understand that it will be hard to cover all the angles that an advanced party can have. However, the one thing that gives the slavers their advantage is one which is simply unfair. Even after the lecture about playing to ones alignment, I'm still not feeling inclined to do the conversation with this group for that reason. There are other ways that this could be handled. I suggested laying them out differently and letting them buff up. I'm sure that there are other things that could be done as well.
     
    mmonagle, Sep 7, 2010
    #158
  9. cezmail

    cezmail Gorboth's Rider

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    New topic that may just be my bad memory. Once you heal Bing and he is able to craft master work items, did he not use to make a masterwork sling along with some of the armors in past modules? For now the only masterwork sling I can seem to acquire is at the ambush in Nulb.I believe you can get on in Verbobanc, but otherwise I find just the one. Like I said, it may just be my faulty memory.
     
    cezmail, Sep 7, 2010
    #159
  10. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    Cant the kids join the slaver faction and be in the Hommlet faction? Wouldnt that make them like the slavers (so they dont get attacked) and like you (so they dont attack you)?
     
    Ranth, Sep 8, 2010
    #160
  11. Necroticpus

    Necroticpus Cthulhu Ftaghn!

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    Is Kent or Corl one of the slaver's kids? Or maybe a few from Mathilde?
     
    Necroticpus, Sep 8, 2010
    #161
  12. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    I feel like I am missing alot in Verb. The guard tells you about a town of inns/hostels in town, and I only see the main one west of the Arena. It also mentions 'the archers xxx' which I dont think I can find. Are these all workable buildings, or just dialogue?

    Plus, Necro seems to have found a bunch of quests I cannot find, such as:

    Robbery at the hostel
    Frozen assets -
    Family turmoil -
    Catching the 'cousin' -

    If Catching the cousin is the one to kill Lerrick I did that. Though I find it funny that when I killed him, I walked downstairs and no one attacked me.
     
    Ranth, Sep 8, 2010
    #162
  13. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    Shouldn't the red ioun stone (dex +2) stack with gloves of dex? It currently does not.
     
    Ranth, Sep 8, 2010
    #163
  14. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    The signpost is just to the left of the door to the guards constabulary. It has all the places around town just like Hommlet and Nulb.
     
    wizgeorge, Sep 8, 2010
    #164
  15. cezmail

    cezmail Gorboth's Rider

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    I believe they are both the same type of bonus and so would not stack. Only the highest bonus would be effective.
     
    cezmail, Sep 8, 2010
    #165
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