New to game seeking advice on lots of things

New to game seeking advice on lots of things


Hi, its my first post on these forums. Ive got an urge to play a classical cRPG with a lots of stats, customization of characters and equipment, dialogues and party like gameplay. Ive used to play Fallout and Baldurs Gate, so after some research in which game provides entertainment i seek i found out about ToEE (never really heard of it before). I've found about the modding community too (if game has modding community it normally means its a good game; example: Jagged Alliance 2)

Well, after I've got the game I spent some time checking the combat mechanics (getting to lvl 3 and fighting hill giant in Emeridy Meadows), reading about classes, weapons crafting etc.., read manual and read posts on the forums. Even after doing all this I still need some advice regarding few things:


First is my party selection:


Fighter
Main melee character, whith long reach polearm weapon.

Race: human

Starting feats:
Combat reflexes
Dodge
Mobility

Further development (not really in order in which they are going to be chosen):
Spring Attack
Combat Experise
Whirlwind Attack
Improved initiative
Improved critical
Weapon focus and specializations

Early on: reach weapon (glaive, halberd or longspear) + enlarge person, decent medium armour
Later: Whirlwind attack?

--------------------------------------

Druid
Support with entangle and summoned meatshield (spontaneously casting summoning), animal follower = awesome scout. Also helps with random encounters (survival).

Race: human

Starting feats:
Improved initiative
Spell focus Conjuration

or

Spell focus Conjuration
Augment summoning

then

Augment summoning / Improved initiative

Further development:
I dont know, probably crafting.

Early: Scouting ahead with her animal companion, Entangle + summoning, scimitar + shield, ranged weapon, hide armour(?)
Later: No idea (Crafting?)

--------------------------------------

Cleric
Second melee character: support spells, then go into fight.

Race: human

Domains:
Strength
Good

Starting feats:
Improved Initiative
Skill focus: Concentration

Further development
Not really sure, probably Combat Casting, after that i have no idea

Early on: Enlarge person on Fighter, other buffs on fighter and himself then join combat with Mace + Shield + medium/heavy armour
Later: no idea

--------------------------------------

Wizard
Ranged support, spells that hinder enemy movement (like grease) + some enchantments (like additional enlarge person) + some attack spells later (when she gets them)

Race: human

Banned schools: No

Starting feats:
Improved initiative
and im at lost of what else is important,

Further development:
I dont even know what should I start with

Early on: ranged weapon, grease, enlarge person, then web when available (at lvl3)

Later on: fireballs and lightning bolts? crafting? seriously i dont know.

--------------------------------------

Rouge
My face character (will do the talking) + traps + lockipcking + bartering, most probably 3rd melee character.

Race: human

Starting feats:
This depends on what Im planning for his future, and i have few things in mind

--------------------------------------


Questions about rouge:


1. Regarding the rouge development, Im kind of in between two (or three choices). So: dualclass the rouge with a fighter or keep him pure rouge?

Dualclass gives better rolls and more feats. That open way for some really good customization for damage dealer, but it hinders the regular rouge skill development (like appraise, diplomacy, Sense motive, lockpicking, traps and thumble)

Single class, gives a lot more points to distribute among these impotant skills, yelds better damage in sneak attacks and gives some really good skill at lvl10 (opportunist looks really good, skill mastery might be nice too) but pure rouge as a regular frontliner might be too weak in terms of damage he can deal.

So will I got really severe hit in terms of talking to people / spotting and disarming traps / lockpicking / bartering when I spend some levels into fighter?


2. Regarding dualclass rouge/fighter how much level of each class would be appropriate? 6rouge/4fighter, 8rouge/2fighter or some other combination


3. Do i understand it right that lvl 4 fighter gets 3 bonus feats (the yellow ones)? So if ive got lvl5 rouge and dualclass him to fighter for 4 levels then got back to rouge, it would be 6rouge/4fighter. Number of feats would be:

4 regular feats (lvl 1, lvl 3, lvl 6, lvl 9)
3 bonus feats (lvl 6, lvl 7, lvl 9)
1 feat for being human

8 feats in total

Am i right on this one?

A 8rouge/2fighter would get 7 feats then?


4. If I dualclass my rouge, will build like that be good?;

feats #7:
Weapon finese
dual wield
improved dual wield
dodge
mobility
spring attack
improved critical

Feats #8
additional feat might be: skill focus (some of the rouge skills like appraise or disable device), improved initiative or weapon focus

most probably i will be using rapier in one hand and cutlass or light mace in other.


5. Do i need weapon focus with rapier for it to work with weapon finese?


6. Is it worth for dualclassed rouge to get to great cleave or whirlwind attack? Or is sticking with the dualwield idea better?


Questions about Wizard:


1. Wizard can learn new spells from scrolls, if so where can i find or buy these scrolls?


2. Is choosing some crafting feats for my wizard good? I was thinking about giving her weapon and armour craft + wondrous items craft. Is potion brewing or rod creation worthwhile?


3. What feats should i choose for her? Skill focus: concentration and improved initiative seems preety important. Are there any other important feats for a wizard?

4. Not specialising in one school of magic is more advantageous for a beginner player than specialising in one (and banning two)?


Questions about druid:


1. Ive decided for a cleric to be additional melee character, but maybe its better role for a druid?
I mean she will get a Wild form, so maybe she should go for melee? But does Wild form really increase druids power a lot in terms of melee?


2. If I chose crafting feat(s) for her what should they be?
Should I get her to know two (or more crafting feats) or distribute those feats among druid and cleric? (example1: druid gets craft armor and weapon + craft wondrous item, cleric doesnt get crafting, example2: druid gets craft armor and weapon, cleric gets craft wondrous item).


3. Are there any feats that druid must have no matter what?


Questions about clerics:


1. Are Strenght and Good Domains fine choice for fighting cleric?
I would not give up on Strenght Domain, but what about Good?


2. More efficient to have fighting cleric and supporting druid or fighting druid and supporting cleric?


3. I really need help with which feats besides Improved Initiative, focus on concentration and combat casting i should get for my fighting cleric.


4. Question about crafting feats same as with druid; which should i choose (if any).


Questions about fighter:


1. Is spiked chain good weapon as a long reach melee?
Is it better than regular polearms like Long spears and Glaives (it needs spending a feat in exotic weapon proficiency)?


2. Is dualclassing a fighter, that got all important feats(example: got whirlwind attack, improved initiative and criticals)worthwhile?
One level of barbarian will grant barbarian rage (i think), one level of ranger gives favoured enemy, druids get animal companion.



Miscellaneous questions:


1. What does spellcraft do?


2. Im getting surplus skill points on some characters;
fighter and wizard getting much more skill points than there are skills they specialize, where should i put thes skill points ( in terms of wizard im putting in thumble, appraise, use magic device, search and heal on top of concentration and spellcraft)


3. Ive seen that performing search with my rouge make other characters help (giving +2 per character).
Does it work with other skills (like appraise)? Are there any prerequisites for it to happen?


4. Does casting charm person on trader lowers his prices.


5. Does casting intelligence increasing spells, wearing inteligence increasing items has any influence on shop prices?


6. Does it matter which person initiate trading/bartering?
Do I have to talk to shopkeeper with person with highest appraise, or just anyone will do and highest value of appraise will be used?

7. Is there a way to break engagement with enemy / flee from battle?
I tested it on hill giant and menaged once; he stopped following and fight ended, but I still dont know how to repeat that.


8. On my first playthrough I'll be using Modpack v.5.8.1, not the NC version, maximum level at 10 and random dices for Hit points, wouldnt it be too dificult.
I'm not sure if the modpack makes game more difficult or its just ballance issues and bug fixing.


Oh wow wall of text


Thanks in advance for the answers.

 

Here's some advice in completely random order:

Feats: fighters should get weapon focus early, then specialize at 4th level. Pick a weapon you like, but someone should use a longsword as there are many in the game. Spiked chain is great, but maybe go with something else first to learn what tactics work for you. Get everyone in the party a missile weapon, you can use them a lot early in the game as its more outdoor or big room stuff early, then later in the game you might not ever use them again. Everyone should be using different weapons, so when you find magic ones you can spread them around. Hold off on weapon focus for the rogue, cleric, and druid until you find a magic weapon they can use. Fighter weapons are plentiful, and later on you can make your own.

Spellcasters should get combat casting, then pump skill points into concentration, nothing like losing that fireball to a arrow disrupting you. Also I like to give everyone skill points in Tumble, even cross class. Your fights don't need any skills for anything, so pump tumble, everyone should try to put some points in tumble to avoid Attacks of Opportunity as you move around the battle field. Also spellcaster should take the spell school focus in whatever they cast a lot. Then later on take spell penetration, because lots of monsters have spell resistance.

Wizards can buy scrolls from Burne in the Castle in south Homlett. You will also find many in your journeys.

You could multiclass that rogue with fighter or ranger to make him a more accomplished attacker, more damage output always helps, but I would keep it to a minimum, only 4 levels of fighter for weapon specialization, or 2-3 levels of ranger for dual weapon use. Maybe dual use short swords. Put all other levels in rogue for the sneak attack damage bonus, and for the extra skill points, as their are locked doors and chests, and plenty of traps to disarm. Always start as a rogue, since you get so many skill points when you start, and you can spread these around, make sure you put some in appraise for better prices at the stores.


Crafting feats, have the cleric and wizard take weapons and armor, that way you spread the XP hit around and one doesn't get too far behind as you really need there fire power. Give the druid and wizard craft wonderous items to boost everyone's stats and give everyone cloaks of resistance to help their saves.


Clerics seem to fight better, if for no other reason they can use heavier armor, so don't get hit as often. Druid wildshape sucks to me, maybe for better movement to get to the backlines of the enemies where their spellcasters hang out, but I always did more damage with a weapon in hand.

 

*casting charm person on a merchant will result in either:

a) the spell works: a merchant which will fight alongside with you ... but won't sell you stuff

b) the spell fails: a pissed off merchant who will try to harm you... and he'll bring his friends.

Better to use the spell eagles splendor on your bartering character.



*Rogues (not rouges ) are not meant to be in the frontline, although if they are in stealth-mode (by the use of sneak or the invisibility spells) they are able to do quite some damage. Also while flanking they are able to deal lethal damage.


*Give your mage the craft wondrous item feat, while giving the Dr&Cl the craft magick arms & armour feat

*Your better off with scribe scroll, craft potions is not so great...

* you need the Good domain to make your weapons holy - which helps fighting demons

* learning spells from scrolls gives good xp

* to break off a fight, you need to be far away from your enemy

 

I am biased against druids. The cleric does everything better. I think they remind me of a rabid P.E.T.A. supporter, all passion with nothing to back it up. Maybe if they started the game with their own ship to ram whaling boats, they might be better. Maybe. But, they make an interesting diversion once every couple of years or so. They make a good meat shield and absorb attacks so that the superheros can TCB.

As far as fighter goes, I would restructure the feats to be the opposite of what you have listed. I'd go, weapon focus, specializations, imp ini, imp crit and combat expertise.

Rogues are brutal in any form, straight or swirled. I always ignore finding traps. The traps in the game are not a danger like they should be. They hit like q-tips. To me, if you set off a trap and get hit with it, it should maim you in some way, like maybe lose a point of dexterity or charisma or a hand or something.

Clerics with the good domain can craft holy weapons, which rock like hell. They also make excellent necromancers at higher levels. If they have the war domain, they get free weapon focus - longsword, which also rocks like hell. They also get all the animal spells needed for crafting.

Wizards are great. The best, hands down. Don't bother with meta spell feats like quicken spell and enlarge spell or any of that other garbage that modifies spells. They just waste feat slots. Imp Ini, dodge, spell focus and greater - evocation, spell penetration, crafting wondrous items and arms/armor.

 

Thanks you all for the answers, they will definitely help to build my party.


One more question: are ranged weapon any good. Early on it doesnt seem so, even though most fights are open fights. Firing into melee penalty of -4 and not too good damage.

So how about late, fighter as specialized archer with all the ranged feats (point blank, precise etc..) improved citicals and few lewels in rouge for sneak shots?

 

Early on, entangle, grease, web your opponents then fire away on them. Yes you will miss alot, but you stay alive longer. Later on your melee started to hit better and harder, you'll find those bows put into the back of the closet.

 

At higher levels, a rogue with a light crossbow is straight out murder, providing they have all the correct feats, weapon focus, precise shot, point blank shot, rapid shot. Especially if you craft a masterwork crossbow with all the nasty ugly things like keen, holy, shocking burst, icy burst, flaming burst. Hill giants will die in 2 shots when you flatfoot them or use glitter on them.

 

Hi
I think that Necro is biased against Druids because he isn't using them properly. I almost always use a Druid (actually two: I always recruit Meleny). A few basic pointers on "The care and feeding of Druids".
1.) Do NOT use Druids as a front line fighter. As Necro will tell you, Clerics (especially the ones with the "War" Domain) will do a much better job.
2.) Druids have the most important, most overlooked spell in the entire game: "Good Berry". Here is how you use it. Let's say you return to the Inn at Hommlet at 2 PM. Go up to your room(s), and have your Druid(s) swap every First Level spell they have for "Good Berry". Now rest 8 hours and then have the Druid(s) cast every Good Berry spell they memorized. Then swap the first level spells back to what you "normally" use and rest another 8 hours. In the morning, your party has an extra 20 or more HP of healing on call whenever you need it.
3.) The two weapons every Druid must have are a Sling (although if you recruit her, Meleny can use a crossbow without penalty) and a Long Spear. I do wish that Co8 would find a way to include "Masterwork Long Spears" into the game, seeing as you can get Masterwork varients of every other weapon you can think of.
4.) Use your Druids as "Close Protection" for the Wizard/ Sorcerer in the group. At some point, a Bugbear will sneak past your fighters, that is when the Druid can go "hand to hand". Don't overlook the Druids "Wildshape" feat. At higher levels they can become formidable close in fighters, and every time they "shapechange" they heal some of the damage they have taken. The spells I recommend are: Entangle, Barkskin, Call Lightning (it even works in the dungeons), Flame Strike, Ice Storm, Stoneskin, and Call Lightning Storm. I do not recommend having your Druid "memorize" any "Summon Natures Ally" spells. If you feel you need to summon a creature, your Druid can do a "Spontaneous Summons" by pressing the SHIFT key while clicking on a Spell your Druid has Memorized.
5.) Good Feats for Druids are: Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augmented Summoning (any creature you summon is has +4 Strength and Constitution), Craft Wondrous Item (Druids are the BEST Wondrous Item crafters, bar none), Craft Arms and Armor, Spell Penetration
4.) When crafting weapons it is a good idea to "Craft by committee". It takes a LOT of Experience Points to add anything other than a "Plus" to a weapon. Start by crafting the weapon to at least +2 (preferably +3) with one character (say your wizard), then hand it to your Cleric (with the War and Good Domains) and have him add "Holy" to the weapon. Then have the Druid to add "Shocking Burst" and/or "Icy Burst" to it. This way you can craft a fair number of powerful weapons without severely effecting the levels of any one character.
Other than that, I pretty much agree with every thing else Necro said. A few notes on Rogues, however.
1.) Do NOT skimp on the Intelligence or Charisma of your Rogue. Intelligence determines how many skill points your Rogue has (HINT: More is better) and is the basis of your Search and Disable Device Skills. Yes, it's true that most of the traps in ToEE can't kill you outright unless you get very unlucky, but why take damage if you don't have too ? Besides every time your Rogue disarms a trap on the first try, you get a few extra Experience Points. Charisma is basis for all your communication skills, and the Rogue is probably going to be your "Face" person. HINT, HINT: There is one quest at the beginning that requires a male character with at least a 16 Charisma.
2.) You really don't need to go higher than 4th or 5th Level Rogue (assuming your Rogue has a good Dexterity) to handle most of the traps in the game. I always go with an Elf Rogue and after 4th or 5th Level He multi-classes as a Wizard.
The Royal Canadian

 

I'll try it. I will scout with animal companion and then entangle, grease and shoot.

I was relying mostly on reach melee wepon and enlarge person + entangle, grease, web + summoned creture as meatshield. This worked quite well with giving me a lot of Attacks of Opportunity when enemies tried to break free or get up.

Is it worth to put Keen on weapon? Does it stacks with improwed critical? Or should I give Keen weapon to characters that can't get Improved critical feat, while characters with that feat doesn't need Keen on their weapons?

I remember that spell from Baldurs Gate, i'll totally going to use it

I give Long spears a try. I was using Scimitars + shield simply because critical range of scimitar

I'll keep that in mind

So in terms of crafting, its more an experience problem than money problem?



Some more questions:


1. I have checked available weapons at gamebanshee and compared to weapons in manual, and I;ve spotted something weird:

Great Cleaver

Weight: 10
Range: 5
Damage: 1d10, 17-20 x3

Its martial one handed weapon, and has statistics better than two handed ones (much better actually). Is it some kind of new content incorporated in modpacks or just simply an error on gamebanshee page?


2. What armors should druid use?


3. How does critical hits work?
Lets say i have druid using scimitar (critical range 18-20), she has +5 attack bonus (strength and class) and she is facing opponent with 30AC. She can score only a critical hit in this setup. Will she hit opponent for damage when she rolls 18 or 19?


Thanks in advance for the answers.

 

* Druids can only use non-metal armor.

*That druid is still short of 5 attack to get through that AC 30. But let's say there's a prayer (+2), a bull strength (+2) and the druid is flanking (+2), so if a 20 is rolled we reach a grand total of 31. With a 19, it reaches 30, which is still enough to get through its AC. On an 18, it only amounts to 29, which is not enough.

And let's assume the good thing happens. It's a hit, with a possibility on a crit. Therefore, it needs to be confirmed and thus rerolled. If the outcome of the new roll is either a 19 or a 20, the critical hit is confirmed. With an 18, it's close but no cigar and it stays a normal hit.

But let's say the fighter made a succesfull trip attack on the target, so suddenly every attack gets a +4, because the target is prone. Now, every attack roll of 15 or more is a hit, and every attack roll of 18 or more will provoke a critical hit. So you roll, and get an 18, you confirm with a 16, it's a critical!

Hope this helps!

 

The cleavers are a bit cheezy, I once had a monk dual wielding cleavers (they count as hand axes, so monks can use them with flurry) for max cheezy destruction!

 

Random:

keen does not stack with improved critical. I typically put imp. crit. on my fighters so I can put one more enchantment on my crafted items instead of keen, because the double threat range on the criticals is deadly.

ranged specialists are ok. Personally I think a ranged fighter is a waste. If your fighter has amazing strength, you won't get all of the damage bonus on a ranged weapon (with composite bows I believe you get some, but not all). Then you provoke an AoO if an enemy penetrates to him, so he's got to switch to a melee anyway. Plus he won't have a shield equiped so hes got lower AC and is more prone to attacks from enemy ranged fighters. I prefer sword + board personally, or a nice reach weapon. Ranged is great for an elven wizard so he can attack from afar when he's conserving spells.

Druids:

Druids are a really nice class for sure.

They can only use natural armors (e.g hide, leather, bone, barbarian). Which armor you will use will probably depend on your dexterity. If you have high dexterity you'll probably keep them in armors that can benefit from the dex bonus. My druid had low dex so I put her in some bone armor which made her AC pretty high.

In my parties they serve as a back-up healer. Most important: they (along with rangers) are the only class that give your party access to the barkskin spell or the item equivalent (Amulet of Natural Armor). Equiping these amulets/spells at high levels gives you a nice natural AC bonus that stacks with everything. Other than that I let my cleric and wizard do the crafting. So really you don't NEED a druid but barkskin is a VERY nice boost. If you want them for their summoning ability that is a different story, they are the masters at that for sure. Personally I would replace your druid with a bard. Bards are underrated and ... just....awesome :yes:

Your rogue:

I would not multiclass your rogue. Remember, at level up time, you get the number of skill points (and class skill designation) for the class you take the level in. You won't be able to keep him the face person and trap disarmer if you multiclass. As recommended above, keep his INT high, recommend 16, no lower than 14. He's got to be a master of all those conversation skills. If you do this, you can opt to not put any points to his CHA. Even if you dump all of your initial stat points into CHA, you are only looking for a +1 or +2 edge to your conversation skills - not alot. So just keep your INT high enough to keep the skill maxed, that same skill will be pretty high at high levels. Plus you can always keep a CHA item handy and equip it when you talk to people. I play my rogues a little differently than most. My highest stats are DEX > INT > CON. This is for a weapon finesse battle-rogue whos also a stealthy trap disarmer. You can do without STR and CHA and WIS for that. But if you don't care about his fighting ability, I'd make CHA, INT, and CON highest. UMD is often overlooked, and can let your rogue use class/race restricted items and wands (backup mage!).

Wizard:

As someone already mentioned, don't take metamagic feats. BUT: What I think they meant to say was don't take them as your regular, every-3-level feat. Definitely take heighten spell at level 5 as your bonus class feat. This is the most useful wizard feat IMO. It basically allows your low level spells to keep their utility at high levels. Web is probably the best example of this, because even at levels > 10, its still one of the best spells in the game. Heighten just ampifies this statement. The other metamagic feat that is nice is extend spell, great for buffs (e.g. spells like heroism). I typically also take spell focus and great spell focus in the enchantment and evocation schools too. Magical charms and enchantments are some of the best crowd control spells in the game. Improved initiative is a huge advantage. You can do without combat casting, but it's nice too I suppose. (remember you can always 5-foot step away from combat). If your wizard is your crafter, save some feats for those too.

Good luck!

 

Hi ECE
Allow me to add a few more comments if I may.

You are most Welcome.
The Royal Canadian

 

Hi
I'm going to comment on some of Arius's comments. I'm not saying he is wrong, it's just that my style of play is probably different from his.

 

Thanks for all these answers, these are big help, especialy:


1.Rogue INT and dualclassing
Now I'd rather dualclass him with fighter for two levels (were planning four)

2.All the advices about Wizards
(I seriously didn't know how to build this class)

3.About cleric and war domain
I had to rethink and choose the domains from Good, War and Strenght. I were planning first, to go with Strength and Good. Now after reading advices about frontline clerics, he will be of Good and War Domain most probably.

4. All advices about crafting



Some more questions:


1.Is Good domain that important?


2. Is Improved counterspell useful feat for anyone?
How counterspelling actually works, should I even bother with it?


3. Does Combat reflexes feat ( increases amount of Attacks of Opportunity by the Dexterity modifier) works independent to armour you wear, as long as its not heavy armour?
Or is there some kind of penalties or other tricks for medium/light armours?


4. About crafting weapons for Rouge:
I've read crafting guide which claimed, that amount of additional rolls for damage modifiers like shocking, flaming, bursts, holy is four. These additional rolls include sneak attacks too. Is that true? If it is, then making more than 3 of them on rouge weapons is a waste.
So making Rouge weapons: Keen weapons and freeing feat: Improved Criticals seems like a good idea, or am I missing something?


5. Again about rouge:
Spring attack seems like a waste for a dualwielding rouge/fighter, but it seems ok for rouge with single weapon (like Great Cleaver or falchion).

Should i give up on spring attack on rouge, when he is dualwield? he would get weapon finesee, dualwield and improved dualwield, initiative, weapon focuses/specializations, maybe dodge and maybe even mobility. Tactics would be: get to flanking position, and keep that position to make full use of dualwield attack (mobility might help with getting into position, dodge and high dexterity help with survival)

If I choose not to dualwield then is tactics like that reasonable: use long reach weapon fighter to attack opponent, then flank opponent with rouge using spring attack, hitting them and withdrawing without attacks of apportunity from enemy. Then if opponent wants to close in on rouge, he will get attack of opportunity from the fighter.

Im more towards the dualwield option though, the second option seems like fun, but how will it work against opponents that have long reach themselves?


Thanks in advance for answers