Charging Crossbowmen

Gaear,
I was able to find that thread I mentioned to you in the PM when I encountered this problem in my mod. http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6963&highlight=archer

Not sure if it helps.

 

Hobgoblins aren't arming with their swords after throwing their javelins.

I've seen 3 crossbowman behaviors recently:
-Charging
-Firing from where they are, but not 5 foot stepping when they would be AoO'd
-Firing, WITH the 5 foot step

Not all crossbowman with issues are skeletal. The xbowman at the moathouse, for example, charge now.

I'll pay closer attention to the COMBINATIONS of xbow behavior in a single fight, and post again.

 

Gaear,

I have seen this only once or twice, I am in the third level of the Temple, on this run through. I believe they were with a skeleton and MAYBE a human in the moathouse. But most Moathouse personnel, if not all, behaved normally.

I have NEVER encountered the Dagger issue, so maybe I got lucky, or maybe, since I don't "monkey around" with anything but the basic download (except swapping Portraits out) I haven't caused any of those things to happen.

I think it might need to be asked if all who have encountered this problem a lot do any kind of regular file changing or doctoring, or modding before playing...

 

Charging crossbowmen would make the bolt shoot harder with all their mass behind it, right? Add a couple of d6 to weapon damage.

 

LOL, NOOO!!! But Charging Crossbowmen SHOULD have to make a Dex check or TRIP, possibly shooting themselves or a random nearby person for damage.

 

Ok, I can confirm that the Moathouse Xbow men tend to charge.

• Suspected cause: lack of proper strategy.tab entry, and accordingly, proper target acquisition.
• Using my t.py script (dsb(500, ec = 's')), I've detected the mobs' strategy. (attached t.py for anyone who wants to use it)
• Except for the lieutenant, whose strategy was 175 (sniper), everyone had strategy 0 (the default strategy).
• The default strategy has a broken command word ("attack closest", there is no such command) and is generally rather borked.
• Note that what they actually do is approach, not charge, and they were probably trying to approach someone still in the corridor, whom they could not attack due to being blocked off by the wall.
• I've changed the default strategy to:
• Code:

  Default    clear target            target closest            sniper            use potion            attack            approach            attack            

• After changing this, xbowmen no longer 'charge', rather they target the closest conscious party member and fire their weapons.
• I've also added 'clear target' to the beginning of the sniper strategy used by the lieutenant, because otherwise sometimes he just freezes without firing his weapon.

• • Moathouse Guardsmen fight (near Lareth)
  • Moathouse courtyard bandits
  • Guardsmen spawned via console

Edit -
Summary of my following posts & findings

1. Have encountered dagger switching in the following circumstances:
   • Moathouse Guardsmen fight (near Lareth)
   • Moathouse courtyard bandits
   • Guardsmen spawned via console
2. In one old savegame of mine, Lareth's guards did not switch to daggers at all. (it was the same game version, 5.6.1.
3. Experiments I've done in test games in an attempt to 'replicate' this or otherwise rectify the problem:
   • Recruiting an NPC party member.
   • Not using console teleports.
   • Changing my party's weapon loadouts (all ranged weapons, and all melee weapons)
   • Resting before the fight.
   • Completing a Hommlet quest.
   • Clearing the cache and loading the save.
   • Removing/switching some commands from the AI: took out sniper, took out clear target, added partial charge, added reload at the beginning, etc.
   • Erasing the default AI completely, leaving it blank - still got weapon switching (the behavior is otherwise as expected)
   • Changing the targeting from 'target closest' to 'target threatened' (as in vanilla) - didn't work.
   • Looked up what AI the bugbear 'archers' use - it's just the sniper AI. Strangely, the ones in the back room will switch weapons, while the one where the scout is - doesn't, despite having the same AI.
   • Removing the start_combat script (made a duplicate proto of guardsman without any san_start_combat script, got daggerswitch again)
   • Restoring the protos.tab entry to vanilla state (removing 2 feats: combat reflexes and weapon focus longspear, and removing san_start_combat script).
   • Switching off the various TFE-X options: Humble NPCs, display HP, etc.
4. None of the above worked.
5. Further observations:
   • The phenomenon is somewhat random in nature - sometimes enemies will switch weapons, sometimes they won't.
   • Starting the fight by webbing all the enemies triggers daggerswitching as well - except it happens when the spell hits them rather than when their turn begins.
   • The item_wield_best_all() function actually equips a proper weapon, rather than the dagger. It seems to get overridden in the first round, though, as if the daggerswitch occurs after the san_start_combat executes.
   • The guardsmen's mobs have not been altered by Co8, at least up to 5.0.5, and as Gaear found, this problem was discovered in the 5.0.0 beta as well.
   • Doesn't happen in Vanilla - neither in the Moathouse nor with spawned guardsmen outdoors.
6. Conclusions:
   • The weapon switching is not related to the strategy.tab entry itself, as fiddling with it extensively has yielded no results.
   • It is not location specific per se, as it happens outdoors with spawned guardsmen as well.
7. The Livonya solution:
   • Forces the AI to wield the correct weapon.
   • Unfortunately, sometimes it seems to incur slowdowns.

 

Hi Gaear
After Sitra's post, my data may be irrelevant but here it is anyway. I am running v5.6.0 and have just finished clearing the moathouse.

The Crossbowman and Swordsman in the "Northwest" corner (to the left of the doors to the inner moathouse) didn't "activate" until I sent a fighter to investigate that area. The Crossbowman didn't charge/approach (probably because my fighter was right there to start with) but did not use the 5 foot step to avoid AOOs while shooting his crossbow.

The Brigand Crossbowman did something interesting (I replayed this fight several times until I was able to get someone in melee range without killing him right away). I started the fight with my Fighter and Cleric blocking the doorway until only the Crossbowman and another brigand were left in the room. I then sent the fighter in to attack the other brigand, while the cleric went for the crossbowman. The Crossbowman changed to his sword, tumbled around the cleric and went for the doorway to entry hallway. I thought that was rather interesting, but killed him before he could cause any problems with my spellcasters.

The Crossbowman in the Moathouse basement hallway "charged" and did not use the 5 foot step. All the Crossbowmen in Lareth's guards "charged" and none of them used the 5 foot step.

I should also point out that I had one Bugbear attack a Spiritual Weapon that was cast behind him instead of attacking a Fighter and Elmo who were attacking him from his front.
The Royal Canadian

 

That's wierd. According to the protos.tab they have the Sniper AI assigned, not the default.

 

You're right. Sorry, was thinking of the wrong group. It's been two years. Yes, the guardsmen had no AI assigned in the protos.tab because the game uses the same proto entry for both the crossbow-type and the longspear-type. (Most other places Troika was thankfully less lazy and separated out ranged and melee baddies.) I remember now having to give them extra feats to account for that fact there was no differentiation between the two.

 

Ok, but you should probably refrain from using the file as-is, because it's a very heavily modified WIP (so just overwrite the first line (Default) and Sniper ).

Also, it should be playtested to see that it doesn't bork other AIs (there are many creatures who use the default AI). I've done some testing in random encounters, but it should be tested further.

 

I can vouch that Jay did not charge in 5.5.0. At least he did not when you fought him in my Golden Skull mod.