Whats the point of a pure fighter?

I've been reading through the manual and forums more extensively, and it seems to me that a pure fighter is not really optimal. And I'm not even talking about multiclassing with other fighter type classes.

It seems to me that having 6-7 levels of fighter is enough for most feats and the BAB. 3-4 levels of rogue will give you sneak attack + skills, 3-4 wizard will give true strike, shield, blur etc etc. All these extra skills at a cost of 1-2 BAB. So why take the pure fighter route?

Whats your opinion on this?

 

Well, Feats and BAB - thats it. Along with the BAB, more Attacks per Round.

There are always good feats.
Lets see:

Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec, Combat Expertise, Cleave, Power Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Trip, Dodge, Mobility, Spring-Attack, Improved Weapon Focus, Combat Reflexes...

...drop anyone and a few hitpoints for 1W6 sneak damage? or a few lvl 1 spells (wich benenifts i dont need? don't think so. Loose an attack per round perhaps? No, thanks.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html

 

Yep, the more BAB the more hits you have.

Take the rapid shot/manyshot feat for example. A 12 lvl fighter, with all the feats, would have three natural attacks, plus rapid shot plus many shot. With greater specialization. With greater W focus. With shot on the run. With point blank shot.
You would be shooting many times, and with power, without having to wait to get a good position for sneaking.

a high level fighter with the whirlwind feats PLUS greater cleave it's an infinite fireball.

Multiclassing a fighter it's a mistake, unless you have another one in your party, or you want something specific.

On the other hand, i think that Barbarians are good for multiclassing: just get enough levels for rage, fast movement and uncanny dodge (i ususally multiclass them with druids, rogues or the surprising combination bard/barbarian)

 

I found that combat reflexes and great cleave works a charm, My fighter (Two Swords, who is now an NPC in KotB) once killed 16 bugbears in one round due to being surrounded and on bugbear failing its tumble check and then more bugbears coming up to replace those killed by her AoO's. Whirlwind attack is quite feat intensive to get...

Prerequisites

Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.

 

Ijep. Lets look at an LVL10 Fighter

Get a Dwarf a Glaive, Str 26 is no prob, Enlarge-28 (+9)

Dodge, Mobility, Power-Attack, Spring Attack, Expertise, Improved Trip, Whirlwind, Focus, Spezialisation, Combat Reflexes

Level 10, hm? Okay, lets get a +2 mighty cleaving Glaive, nothing special
Attack +22/+17, 1W10+17, 15ft Reach (w. Buckler +21/+16)

Trip: +9(Str)+4(Feat)+4(Enlarge)=+16
Resist getting Tripped: +20 (dwarf)

AC 10 + 1 Dodge, 1 Dex, 8+3 FP, 1+3 Buckler, 2 Ring=29 (Enlarge 28)

HP: up to 180
Well, aside the Enlarge thats totally unbuffed, well, along with some Items.

Get him a Bardsong, Haste, Displacement/improved Invis, Prot From Evil, shield of faith, heroism. Got a level 10 DM-Nightmare
Or - better Weapon

Happy Cleaving!

 

It's funny how things change. In AD&D 2nd edition, it was always best to go for a multi-classed character as those were mega-powerful, whereas single-classed characters sucked. Now, it's dangerous to add extra classes except at very high levels(ie c.18-20+). Certainly, with TOEE, having just a couple of rogue or wizard levels doesn't work as both rogues and wizards don't really become powerful until very high levels( level 10 for rogues.level 9 for wizards). In my first TOEE game or so, I did make the mistake of using a fighter/rogue(just one or two levels of rogue), and I would fail to unlock chests etc. Incidentally, why is it that you're not allowed to bash open chests in TOEE? This was possible in NWN, thus allowing non-rogues to grab loot without needing lockpicking skills - the NWN-way is so much more realistic.

 

Well, multiclassing isnt THAT bad,

A few Levels of fighter work well for a ranger/barbarian for feats, or a single fighter level for a cleric, just for the weapon proficies and the bonus feat. Perhaps not in this computer game, but in P&P multiclassing is great.
Give a Rogue a level of Barbarian for example. Okay, your skills are one point lower then they could be, but you'll get nice weapon/armor profecies and just a little hp-boost - makes it up for me.

Its often a question of flair. I dont tend to plan my chars from 1-20 before starting them, they grow. So my Rogue3/Wizard5/Arcane-Trickster3/AbjurationChampion1 sucks pretty well, if you just judge it by skills/hp/saves etc, but it's fun and exiting to play... just for example, - esp. in a smaller Group.

Effectivity is overrated.

...jm2c...



But, mix figher with other classes?
Hard,
- a few level of Paladin, Divine Grace, Fear Immunity, Saves, wand-use - okay
- two levels of Rogue for evasion (for the dex-fighter type) - not worth it

Caster? Hmm...maybe for Wand/Scroll usage, but in a balanced group not worth it...

 

Give 1 level of fighter to elf wizard for extra hit points at low level, to use a elven shield (maybe with purple chain - 5% spell failure), to use a spare non-longsword,etc. magic weapon when meleed, for an extra weapon feat, +1 thac0, cupla +'s on saves...
Similar idea on halfling rogue for extra weapons choices, shield, 2-handed spare ++ longsword wielding...
But it's hard to beat 100% fighter, even on demi-humans like gnomes. (Anyone got Gleem's cell?)

 

Ahem...

You don't need a proficy for shields with check-pen of 0. Thats why mithral bucklers are a rogues/arcane casters' best friend

 

!Absolutemente! But +2(+magic) vs. +1(+magic), and those "free" other things, for just 1 level of fighter! ("Just 1" is a gateway to the later ran2/rog1/ftr1/bar2/mon2/wiz2 10th level spellcaster who knows only first level spells. Hehe!) But for pure MU/rogues, you are the Master.

 

Multi-classing a caster-class is generally a losing proposition (barring access to Prestige Classes like Arcane Trickster that let you combine the abilities of the two classes) though mixing classes like Fighter or Rogue or Barbarian together works pretty well. The way to do it is figure out what your goal is for the characters and then take the appropriate levels in each class to achieve that build.

Barbarian/Fighters, for example, work pretty well. Go 1st level barbarian to get the hp and rage, take 4 levels of fighter to get yourself cleave, WF and Weapon Spec and then go Barbarian the rest of the way.

Rogues can also benefit from a Fighter level or two, for the extra HP, feats and increased weapon selection.

 

Two multiclasses that I think are no-brainers:

If you want a paladin, not much point in taking more than 4 levels in it. In fact, I recommend 6 levels of fighter, then 4 levels of paladin, then fighter thereafter. The extra feats are worth far more than any advantages you get from paladin levels 5 and up, IMO, all the good paladin perks are frontloaded. And this way you can do the drinking contest -with- your future paladin In fact, if you do your order right, you can probably do the "neutral" versions of the Temple quests before hitting level 7 and getting your first paladin level too. Only disadvantage here is you won't get your immunity to fear and save bonuses till level 8-9, but you probably won't -need- them all that much before then anyway, and you get more lovely perks early on as compensation.

And then there's rogue. Even with the harder traps and locks, a level 5 rogue with 18-20 dex, a respectable Int, and buffed with cat's grace and fox's cunning can handle just about everything that I've found (though, granted, I haven't finished the game yet), ESPECIALLY if you have a bard along for Inspire Competence. That song really makes a split class rogue much more viable. So I never really take a pure rogue along, usually I take a ranger 5/rogue 5, and this is in fact not a bad option for your dual wielding scather/fragerach character.

Qwinn

 

In the module The Return To The Temple of Elemental Evil, there´s a disguised paladin in the Innn of the Welcome Wench who is constantly drunk, but he just about keeps his vows as a paladin. I don´t see how drinking heavily can be seen as an evil act, and it´s not necessarily all that chaotic.

 

Excessive drinking, especially to the point of being drunk is very chaotic.

Law = Order = Control
Drunk = Lack of Control = Chaos

P.S. Drink with moderation outside your home.


Edit:

Think of being a Paladin like being a Catholic. Lots of rules, most of them don't make sense, but there's no real negative for not following them because you can just go to a priest and ask for Atonement ;-)