Another take on game rebalance

Playing through again after almost a year I am again enjoying myself and looking forward to the War of the Golden Skull. I have a party of 7 generated characters and off I go.

I have yet to do any new "added content" and yet I am gaining levels easily. I am doing what the vanilla game intended: help Hommlet, clear Moathouse, then go to Nulb. But I am gaining levels too easily and too fast.

I think, actually, it is the fact I can use 7 generated characters, and it got me thinking that perhaps it is not so much a NEED for Totwc, but perhaps looking at the characters themselves.

Vanilla TOEE was designed around 5 PC's with a limit of 3 NPC's. The NPC's, original ones, are not NEARLY as powerful as what a generated PC can be. I have been around D+D for over 25 years and know EXACTLY how to make characters the most efficient at what they do and what works and what does not, and my 7 characters are all very powerful, with no magic. I think perhaps the allowable limit of 7 is perhaps one reason some find the game too easy. Now, there are those who go through it with less, perhaps only 3 or so, but I find the fact that the extra PC generated characters gives the edge way too much to the player. I am thinking that with a limit of only 5 generated characters you would be forced to take NPC's which is the intent, I think.

Could be just me, but a thought nevertheless. Granted you have the OPTION of taking how many you want, but like anything else, if you offer it, people will take it.

Has this idea been considered?

 

Intesting observation. When I first palyed vanilla TOEE, I used one generated charcter (a paladin) and the rest were the premade NPCs. It simply came down to matching the right premade NPCs with my generated character. I had no real trouble getting through the game. The only real problem was the Balor Guardian fight. But I figured out a strategy for that fight. I have never played with more than five characters. I believe that seven chracters in the group wether generated or premade would make the game easier.

 

You guys do play with Max Hp levels/HD, right? Also, do you play with rolled characters or point-buy characters? Most NPCs have more ability points than a point-buy PC. So I have no complaints about them. I even lower their scores sometimes.

 

If you limit yourself to two or three PC's they gain levels even faster, making them too strong too. I think we all just know D&D rules and what works best too well.

In my opinion, the max # of PC's comes down to "How many attacks/actions do you want per round". I have played a NG cleric solo up to the balor and she gained levels like crazy, but it was hard when I only had one attack to my opponents 12. I did a lot of spiritual weapons to keep mobs off me early on.

 

I really don't understand soloing w/o NPCs. Go unconscious - game over! Low initiative - game over!

I suppose I could understand how a cleric does it, but a wizard???

Edit: I also suppose one must reload often.

 

It is fun creating a urber party, then creating magic, getting massive amounts of spells from high INT/WIS.....ect...ect....ect....however it does get boring.

I now play like I did when I first played D+D I roll a character once, look at the roll and make the best of it. I dont make my own magic items, it makes finding them much more appriecating.

I currently have a party that is around 7th level. I have a fighter with a 15 str who is kinda stuck at 5th level because he keeps dying. I have a Wizzard with 17 int and 5 con with only 13 HPs.....he is hard to keep alive but he hasnt died yet.....ect ect....it makes this game very challenging.

I also try to not pick the same spells more then once (cure spells the exception) so it makes you think how to use your spells more wisley. The only this I really did abnormal was recrute Spug in my group console level him so he could make me a helm of reading magic, which I hate doing by spell.

 

I agree completely with LUM-

Uber is fun, the first or second time. Then, you it si too easy...

I am more (or less) hardcore that that even though-

I play IRONMAN only. You die, yoiu die - no redo's (although there IS a way around that too- I use it only when I believe the game has bugged) Thats UBER tough and Hardcore.

But I do the two roll rule in Ironman- If I am not feeling the first roll- I stop character creation then try one more, and ONLY one more time, and then make the best of it. I feel that allows for better game balance and I still have a Bard wtih THREE Stats in the Negative adjustments and all but one of my party of 6 started with At Least 1 Negative Stat. Thats a Little less Hardcore, but still tough.

Makes it more challenging, and rewarding. And for Purist Roleplayers, mmore "Real".

 

Like I said, it is a thought. I know there are those who solo through and yes, low character number parties level faster but have less attacks per round.

 

I understand your position, and respect it. But the fact is (and Gary Gygax elaborated on this at some length) that the adventurer is SUPPOSED to be above norm; why else would they rise above being a blacksmith, farmer, or whatever to be one of the elite to rise above. Personally, I cannot understand and refuse to use characters with "normal" stats, simply being it is against one of the basic precepts of the game. I agree "normal" stats may make the game harder but a fighter with a 15 strength and many 12's is not a fantastic hero fighter but a "normie" struggling to survive.

 

But I would also ad that 3rd edition rules give out bonus with much lower scores then the original for example 12/13 STR give the same +1 as the old 17 Str used to give.

I feel the fights are far more exciting when I can get them to last longer and if my fighters are averaging 15-20 hps damage as opposed to 25-30 it does just that.

Also I like picking a fighter with a bunch of weapons instead of just focusing in on one weapon with Power Attack, Cleave, Specailized, ect....Now my fighters carry around a sword, blunt, and a pole arm in which I use all the weapon tabs and change depending on the challenge.

My wizzards buy more scrolls to actually use because they dont have 20 spells to cast all the time.

My clerics actually use their main spells for just healing relying on thier domain spells for combat.

When I see the +4 dex gloves for sale in Nulb I save my money instead of blowing it on making my whole party +3 in everything they own. I see the Holy Mace in the Church of Saint Cuthbert and I drool instad of saying "bahh I'll just make my own".

I currently have 6 rolled and 2 NPCs the Thief from Hommlet is one of them, but he has died like 4 times and has been stuck at 4500exp.

 

That's what I was trying to say, but it still didn't get me my keep. :tears::grin:

So a party of 7 is considered the optimum number- not too hard, not too easy? Also, I gather it isn't possible to change the point-build character creator to allow for 32-point characters? I tried searching but couldn't find the right keyword combo to get me the answer I was looking for; since it wasn't included in any of the Mod Packs, however, I'm assuming that it couldn't be done.

 

Only the first two levels. I played a wizard solo the very first time and after getting to know the mechanics i reloaded 95% the time due to bugs and glitches. I also tried ironman, but this game is sadly not suited for that kind of playstyle.