Orb is kinda lame

I got like 2 Vrocks 2 Garlbrezu and 1 Hezrou and they're useless. They don't attack, they skip turns, they get afraid all the time (seriously, my whole party is turned afraid and it lasts almost forever), they don't retaliate when hit or take any attack of opportunity (dont give a fuck, I guess), they take FOREVER to defend and when they attack - they miss too often.

Why can't they be like attacking summons? I can't control them, so I guess they should be smart enough to at least make useful attacks - like flat out eat their enemies. But they repeat the same tactic that they use on you when you first fight them (the lame spells, that backfire on them if they miss or w/e; the mirror image (mostly) and some attack (Galbrezu at least has 6 or smth attacks, but deal ridiculous damage to Balor).

So this was my plan against Balor (Fire plane boss):

1) Kill off the 2 Efreet.
2) Deal with Balor.

Sounds fairly since initially it's just them 3.

But the summons from the Orb are useless I tell ya.
How do I kill off Balor? It's stupid enough only magic missiles and Ice Storm take so much of his life (well, 3 or 4 of those take like 40-50 of his hp), but even more so I hate how the summoned bosses take so much damage from it and deal so little (if ANYTHING). I guess I should just stack up on some of the Ice and MM spells, but there's only so much you can cast.
I don't have anything fancy, so I just thought I'd take 5 combines bosses and my party to take this jerk down.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

Buff well.

If you have the cookie cutter 5 man party, here's how you go...

4 or more bless spells
3 or so prayer spells
2 mage armors on each fighter
2 bull's strength on each fighter and cleric
enlarge person on fighters and clerics
2 stoneskins on each fighter
divine power and righteous might on cleric
haste on everyone
Rage on both fighters
Drink heroism and greater heroism potions for both fighters

Move fighters up to begin dialog.
Move wizard and cleric to left side wall and aligned with balor.
Fighters chop away at Balor.
Mage wanks away with cone of colds on Balor.
Cleric summons earth elementals if possible while killing any summons the balor sends after wizard.

After 4 rounds or so, collect your fire gem. You may have to hit the tab key to see it as the balor's body disappears immediately.

 

Let me say I don't get it. I have a simple, non-buffing-non-specialized party at my disposal. No such spells I ever use, cause they don't last long. Balor is almost impossible to hit with any of my melee guys (non-casters), so I don't see how you'd survive, actually :/...
I'm playing without the Co8 mod, if you don't yet get it.

 

With that being the case. I think you are going to find it impossible to kill the balor. You need those buffs and whatnot to kill him. Even with the strategy I put out there, it takes some luck to kill him. And for a non-buffed party? Whoa. I think you have a better chance of getting struck by 5 lightning bolts out of the sky all at once than killing him. You need insane amounts of luck. Sorry, that's how I see it.

Try the game again and focus on giving your characters as much of an advatage as possible, meaning 18 stat in each charcter's prime stat. Like 18 intelligence for wizards, 18 charisma for sorcers, 18 strength for fighter, 18 wisdom for clerics, 18 dexterity for rogues. Choosing the proper feats helps immensely also. Spell penetration and greater spell penetration for casters, weapon focus, weapon specialization, greater weapon specialization, improved critical, power attack, cleave, great cleave for fighters, etc.

Crafting some nice magic items with create wonderous items helps tons also.

The game cheats so you have to power game for the big fights, like the balor.

 

These things should not stack:

4 or more bless spells
3 or so prayer spells
2 mage armors on each fighter (doesn't stack with worn armor)
2 bull's strength on each fighter and cleric
2 stoneskins on each fighter (might stack but shouldn't)
divine power on cleric (doesn't stack with Bull's Strength)
Drink heroism and greater heroism potions for both fighters

The only reason I could understand to stack non-stackable spells is to prepare for the Balor's Dispel Magic.

 

Well, I think I'm gonna do one thing - just memorize Ice Storm and magic missile as much as I can. I now get what I need to do.

And you don't need any buffs to kick is ass as far as I'm concerned. I need to be behind the summons (G, H and V boss summons) and just spam magic missiles + ice storm after I put web on Balor. It's not gonna be easy - no, but magic missile rarely does little damage (compared to just trying to hit him with weapons) and I believe that my summons can deal at least half of his hp. I'll try to take him down this week. I hate how the game is slow to load, save and locks up a lot, so I'm not gonna strain myself.

The buffing as you mentioned is just for bum-rushing the Balor = getting owned hard. I beat all the other 3 bosses without losing anyone or even getting hit, so go figure my tactic.

 

troop18546,

The balor guardian is a tough fight. If you do not have a paladin in your group you need fighters that can resist the fear spells. Have your wizard cast Otiluke's Resilient sphere on your rogue (or some other character) and have that member start the dialog. Your fighter should be equip with the Frostblade enhanced with holy at the minimum or a plus 3 weapon enhanced with holy (you can also use Scather or Fargarch if fighters wielding them are not CG in alignment). The member in the sphere will act as a lure for the balor and the efreeti.

Basically the member is the sphere cannot be harmed unless it is by death magic. But this member is out of the fight. Cast invisibility on the fighters or quaff a potion of invisibility. Position them next to the balor. Run the member with the sphere spell cast on him/her up to the balor to start dialog. The Sphere spell will activate. Let the battle commence.

Use your wizard to hurl MM and cone of cold. Use your cleric or druid to summon other creatures to distract the balor , mop up the efreeti. and any summons the balor calls.

Be careful with the orb and calling the bosses. You cannot control what the bosses cast. You can end up hurting your own party. It will still be a tough fight. Ju8st one way that may work for you.

 

DnD is a buff centric game, by the way the rules system is designed. If you don't like buffing up for the tougher battles, you might want to try a different game.

 

That'd be cool if I had actually considered to pick that spell :/ hmmm... Nice idea with the distraction tho. I thought of that spell for my wiz, but I decided to go with smth else (unlucky me), but my chars are all lvl10, so I can't just more spells. Bummer... :/

Hmmm... I'll see if my saves can show me a not too far place to maybe change up, but I doubt if I want that actually. Cones of cold sound nice against a fire demon lol XD.

I think you're all thinking of this too easy, since I'm playing vanilla with the lvl cap of 10, so not that many spells I can get actually. The lvl20 chars you play with of course have like (Ranth's vid referrence) 20 MM's from one cast, so... you have it easy.

@ ithildur:

Since I beat the game without knowing or using buffs, not using any meta-magic (since it doesn't work on vanilla), mostly running around with lvl5 at best in the temple - then yes, I AM better than what you think of me. <_< I'm a newcomer and I have handled my party well. It's only the Balor and Z that I seem to have a hard time against. In other words (emoticons actually)

 

Or try a "champion of justice game" and build a 5 men party composed just for paladins!
It's the easy way to close the game, with a minimun of buff - some Divine Favor and Protection from Evil - and lots os smites! Plus, as paladins are imune to fear, the fight with the balor is a trip!

Serios, I've donne this, with a paladin of each of the mediun races, and is very cool! A half-elf with the first level of rogue, or, as I do, with the first feat in Negotiator or other "multi-social-skill-feat" makes an excelent face man, and becomes a good fighter as ya grow in level. The other races mediun races - an elf for artillery, a half-orc with two-weapons fight, a human with sword and shield and a dwarf with pole weapons, and ya have a very efective party! I wonder how powerful a 6-8 men party of paladins shall be...

 

I would disagree. I've DMed 2 pnp parties since 3.0 came out and neither one were really buff-centric. However, I would say that 3rd Edtion is definately focused on magic items. In TOEE, and in pnp, I find that any party that doesn't either find a source of magic items, or learn to craft magic items, is at a severe disadvenatage.

Sorry for the thread hijack, now returning you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

Troop18546,

All of my characters were at level 10 when I used the strategy I suggested. I was playing vanilla TOEE. I did not use the mod until my third time through the game. I knew the benefits of Otiluke's Resilient Sphere from playing Baldur's Gate I and II. The sphere saved my character a few times in those games. I would cast the sphere when I was low on hit points. I could then use healing magic to restore my hit points. The sphere only prevents you from casting magic out and attacking. The benefit is that you cannot be damaged except by certain high level spells and of course dispel magic.

 

The benefit is clearly a big one, since Balor doesn't have a single death attack, but he uses dispel magic many times in the very beginning, so buffing doesn't make sense since my saving throws suck monkey balls.

Anyway, I've seen pretty much the whole game and a few fight scenes won't change anything, I guess. I've beaten up the whole temple - noone left anyway, so I've proved my point.

I'm glad I had a chance to have so much fun.

 

Just be glad you're not fighting a real balor. If you were, here's how the fight would go:

If your party is level 10 or below: on round 1, the balor uses his at-will blasphemy ability to instantly kill your entire party, no save. The end. If you used up all your cleric's level 4 spells to cast death ward on your entire party, see below, maybe (I'm not exactly sure if blasphemy killing counts as a "magical death effect"; it probably does).

If your party is level 11 to 15: blasphemy instead paralyzes your entire party for 1d10 minutes. The balor then coup de graces everyone. You could again get out of this partially by using all your 4th level spells on freedom of movement, if you haven't already used them on death ward. You could also, at level 15, cast greater spell immunity (if it were in ToEE) to negate the blasphemy on 1, maybe 2, people. However...

The balor can also cast implosion once a day, which can kill up to 4 of your guys (DC 27 fortitude), and may or may not be prevented by death ward. He also has, at will, dominate monster (DC 27 will), insanity (DC 25 will) and power word stun. So I hope you brought your mind blank. And even if you did buff to negate most of the above, maybe he uses his at-will greater dispel magic to get rid of them (he has around a 70% chance of success if your casters are level 15). And maybe he summons some other demons (maybe another balor) to help him out. He also teleports at will.

Even if you're above level 15, you still have to worry about blasphemy, because he can use it every round to daze your party for a single round, which prevents them from ever doing anything. That doesn't go away until you get to level 21.

So, if it seems hard fighting him, just remember: by the book, he could probably easily annihilate any party you could reasonably expect to have in the game. Swinging at him and whiffing isn't the worst that could be happening.