Trying to look at this with an eye to reality ... I don't know, some of the claims (and maybe it's just the method of determination) seem rather dubious to me. If 18 is 'the best,' then 18 strength is Arnold Schwarzenegger (in his prime), 18 dexterity is Michael Jordan, 18 constitution is Lance Armstrong, 18 intelligence is Einstein, 18 wisdom is Gandhi, and 18 charisma is Jessica Alba. Does anybody really think they even come close to those people? More likely we'd all be 8 - 12s in every score. If you thought you were exceptionally intelligent, for example, you might be a 12 instead of a 10. (It's also curious that all our 'wise' people - e.g., krunch supposedly had "keen wisdom" - are able to proclaim that for themselves, given that one of the conventional tenets of wisdom is an acknowlegement that you don't really know much. So a truly wise person would not consider himself/herself wise.)
I go by the Old DnD Standard of 1-4 Animal levels or just seriously Fubar... 5-7 Below Average- as in Something is wrong here... 8-10 Average- and I mean just plaing old average not remarkable in any way 11-12 Above average- you get B's in school for instance for Int 12 IF you TRY for them 13-14 High - people notice this stat is better - whatshername's Comeliness for example (Comeliness is an old Stat once used as the physical part of Charisma- whatshername you are NOT below average) .. Most of the modders (if not all!) in this forum... have at least this score for INT imho 15-16 Exceptional- people cant help but notice you are well above normal- Think Sly Stallone's Strength for instance- not a 14 but not an 18 either... 17-18 Maximun Human possibility- like Gaear said, not many should be claiming this and they REALLY should have something to back it up- a Mensa test score of 180 IQ perhaps... Arnold's Physique at his best-- the fictional Rocky Balboa's Constitution... Try that as a guide... if you disagree then thats fine too but use your High Intellegence to put forth a better system...
I have my doubts about the strength thing. The average male cannot boost 105 lbs over his head 10 times in a row. But I can support the intelligence thing: Odds of rolling an 18 = 1 out of 216 ~ .00463 This is a Standard Normal Z value of 2.60 standard deviations This translates to an IQ of 100 + 2.60 (15) = 139 So, if your IQ is 140 or more, your intelligence is 18 or more. Dexterity is learned, not innate. It is task-specific. Agility is less so. Wisdom is time and effort, not just time. Thinking is strictly an active process, though it may be effortless. If you look at what it modifies, it seems to relate to knowledge and experience. Charisma is a measure of people's willingness to do what you say. So it depends on what Jessica wants me to do. More like a popularly elected official. I think constitution can be approximated by stamina. But most people can't run/walk 10.5 laps (about 2.6 miles) in a half hour. An effort to improve yourself will make a difference in almost every stat. :thumbsup:
The Queen, if such I be, has not posted because she is unable to determine some of her stats. I'll do what I can. STR 8. Maybe less. I can lift a small child. Most of the time. DEX 10. I've always been very fast, running. Today...well, I smoke. Enuf said there. But my hand/eye coordination is good, so is my flexibility. It could be higher than 10, dunno. CON 13 I don't get sick often, and normally don't stay sick long when I do. I have done nearly everything possible to mess up my body, and it still functions fairly well. Mostly, though it is my endurance that raises this score. I have tremendous endurance. I don't like pain, but I can withstand a lot of it, even if I do whine about it. I can't remember the last time I took a pain pill. And I can 'go' forever, seems like. But I tend to drain it all down to the last drop. I do recover fast. Now is when it gets sticky. My peers at work and my friends consider me to be intelligent. I think I am intelligent, but in recent years I don't care particularly whether anyone knows it. My nick at work is 'the wise woman.' Others would find that ludicrous. Charisma wise I can catch people up, hold them, and take them with me. I am funny. And my humor catches people off guard. Because I tend to be fairly intense, they forget I can be funny, too. But I am fickle. When I am into self all 3 go straight out the window (as you might have noticed the last 3 months or so -- or longer?). Appearance wise also varies. From seductive, pretty, attractive, plain jane. I've said elsewhere, I have good bones. It's all in what you do with them. My friends love me, even the ones who are not good friends, but there are people who hate me. Each and all have reason. So I cannot determine the last 3. Just can't.
18 is not the maximum human possibilty. There's no such thing. Otherwise no new records would ever be set. 18 is (reasonably) the maximum STARTING stat. I think Mensa (table?) requires an IQ of 130 (maybe less), about an Int 16. So go join, you pinheads, I mean, geniuses. oke: 180 is the standard liar IQ. Asia Carrerra, the porn star, for example. Arnold is not strength, just size and definition. Strength would be some 5'8" fireplug with 30" upper arms but a 48" waist.
OK. Here goes.... Strength: 11/12 I don't work out, but have OK strength. Can move furniture, lift kids, etc. Dexterity: 15 (12-After roller skating. It appears I have very little balance after all!) While not agile, I've got good reflexes (I can dodge well!), good overall coordination, and excellent hand-eye coordination. (Thank you video games!). Damn light and quiet on my feet too! I LOVE sneaking up on people. Just ask J, N, or even the ex! :evilgrin: Constitution: 16/17 (This is OK. I woke up with ZERO aches/pains/strains after roller skating!) Rarely, if ever, get sick. Even with a kid! When I do, it's no more than a day or two and usually requires no time off from work. The last major illness I had was a year ago and was an actual medical condition. Fixed easily when I STOPPED taking the meds prescribed by my doc. Stoopid doctors!! Intelligence: 16 No college degree, but smart, nontheless. You gotta be in my field of work! It's been waaay too long to remember my actual IQ. The last time I was tested was in 4th grade for acceptance into a gifted program. Which I DID get into, thank you very much! Wisdom: 13/14 (11/12 after roller skating. What was I thinking!!??) Maybe higher. Lots of hard learned lessons and forced growing up in the last 6 years or so. Helps tremendously when you actually STOP and THINK about your comments/actions before acting on them. Charisma: 13 Good (not great) looking (though J would definitely have issue with that!) and a fun and compassionate personality. This should priobably be higher (see wisdom explanation), but I'm trying to be realistic. A rogue or wizard type class would probably suit me best. Cleric would be OK, but I'm opposed to most organized (read: monotheistic) religions. Druid would be fine, as I love Nature. Maybe a Hindu faith based cleric.... EDIT: Statements in "yellow" now reflect corrections after the roller skating incident. Who said fantasy and reality can't mix??
Valid points GA- Especially the Arnold/ Strong man definition. I was trying to use Gaear's (and most peoples) definition of Top strength. I do have issue with the "Starting Stats" statement though, and I argur the Human Maximum - umm--- who STARTS with an 18 Strength?!! Or INT?! No one has that as a starting strenght so is should be tha maximun sans magical help- which it WAS in the first 30 years of DnD - Allowances for records are made be simply allwoing for RANGE within the maximum- and don't discount synergy of higher records because of great stats in more than one category- and truthfully - SKILL on everything which comes from experience- EG: Micheal Phelps is a top swimmer- but probably comes in with a 16 in STR and maybe 18s in Con and Dex but it is his DRIVE coupled with those great stats along with his skill from years of trianing that gives him the .01 of a second to set a record... BTW- 139 on two different Mensa tests over a span of years- does that give me a 14, 15,17, or 18 INT? Depends on how you count it. Technically a "genius" is 140 IQ and up and in DnD 17-18 is genius so I might be a 17, but I am certainly no genius, above average, yes, exceptional, maybe but not definitely not a genius... So I refer back to the general categories I outlined and ask again if you think there are fair? @Emrikol good stats man- by the standards I put forth.. you rock!
While I feel strongly about the system I put forth, I am more interested in improving it. I like it because it uses objective criteria (except charisma) and measures everyone to the same criteria. But I wonder if it accurately reflects what D&D stats are supposed to reflect. But, it, or something like it, may be the best we can do. Part of the problem is that the D&D system itself is not an accurate reflection of anything real. For example, does a "2nd" level character really have twice as many hit points as a "1st" level? These are old questions that have been discussed for years. It's been my experience that the best Guardian Angels are NOT the ones with the best "stats". :shrug:
An 18 year old who can boost 180lb overhead 10 times. Refreshingly rare! I agree completely. IQ test score of 140 is supposed to be the top .5 % or so, as is a roll of 18 on three die. The word "genius" should reflect exceptional talent, not just statistical rarity. Emirkol rocks no matter what his stats are. :thumbsup:
WOW, such praise! Thanks all! *blushing furiously* *looks around expectantly for Scryler, doesn't see her, face falls....* Perhaps, I should lower my INT score.... LOTS of misspellings. (Actually, typing too fast and doing it while at work.)
OK, ok. Yes, you are an exceptional person! :hug: On this board, though, I must say that it seems like everyone is exceptional. Perhaps D&D draws exceptional people. Perhaps ToEE and the Co8 are the draw. Nonetheless, EtC, you do seem to have one of the biggest hearts! (Or are the most open about it.) So there!
*face brightens considerably. Dries tears, wipes nose on sleeve* REALLY?!? Aaaww, thanks, Scry! :hug: (Note to self: Fishing for complimensts is fun!! I must try this more often!) Being an RPG geek for most of my life, its gotta be this forum and the Co8. I've never had the pleasure of interacting with such great "fellow geeks" as yourselves! :thumbsup: I'm truly honoured. Right on both counts, my dear Lady! I've got no problem with openess. There's very little in my life that I allow myself to feel "bad" or "embarrassed" about. I look at those things as useful (if not painful, stupid, or outright dangerous) learning points in my life. The resounding/repeated lesson.... "Well, we're NOT gonna do that again, are we?" Thank the Gods I listen..... 95% of the time. EDIT: OK, 92.5%. Happy?
GA, I suspect that your methodology for determining stats is not real well suited to D&D. It's too complex when the real issues for D&D use, it seems to me, are quite simple: Strength is a measure of how much ass you can kick and how much you can carry. Dexterity is a measure of how much ass kicking you can avoid and how well you can manipulate complex objects (traps, locks, pockets, etc.). Constitution is a measure of how much punishment you can take and how resistant to desease you are. Intelligence is a measure of how rapidly you can grasp concepts and your capacity to store information. Widsom is ... vague. A measure of a cleric's ability to influence undead? Why would clerics tend to be extra wise? You'd think it would be like DEX's counter to strength, a measure of how much stupidity you can avoid and your ability to understand the information you've stored in a comprehensive sense. Charisma is a measure of how easily you can get people to do what you want. I'm not the 'decider' of what D&D is supposed to be obviously, but in this context, formulae and standard deviations and Z values are quite unnecessary. People with high strength are strong. An 18 is the strongest (although we see more D&D silliness here with "you can actually go over 18 which means you're stronger than it's possible for you to be"), 1 is the weakest, 9-10 is average - ie., most people. If you lift weights twice a week, okay, you're an 11. If you're Hulk Hogan you're an 18. Regular guys aren't anywhere near 14s, 15s, 16s ... Not meaning to be contentious with this btw, I just think you're over-thinking it. If I'm wrong about that, I'll just go with these scores: STR - 18 - I can lift significantly more weight than my sister. DEX - 18 - I played high school baseball. CON - 17.5 - I haven't died yet but I smoke. INT - 18 - I didn't flunk any classes. WIS - 18 - It is keen ... keen I say. CHA - 18 - Most people I know don't hate me.
I agree that it is complicated. The main positive aspect to this (my?) approach is that it is OBJECTIVE. Everyone is measured against the same standard. I think most of us are underestimating ourselves (MOST of us), especially with respect to intelligence. For every stat except charisma, there are objective ways to measure something relevant. One of my specialties as an undergraduate was Human Factors. This is counter-balanced by the fact that what we are measuring may not be what the stat is meant to represent. For example, running = disease resistance? I present this as a way to take a cold, hard look at yourself. You might not be too disappointed. I RESPECTFULLY disagree that a subjective evaluation, especially a self-evaluation, is sufficient. On the other hand, subjectively, I could then be that half-orc ranger cleric.
Gaear- If you were jesting about this assessment or being humorously facetious- You get my vote for awesomeness! If you were serious, then either something is wrong with your humility, or, I need to start washing your clothes, cleaning your house and in any other way I can think of making myself indispensible to your greatness!!