Nice analysis! The energy of impact is .5 x mass x velocity squared. You seem to be referring to momentum, which is mass x velocity. Using 1 lb @ 250 mph, I believe we are looking at around 2800 lb-ft of energy. Boy! Do my numbers need to checked. I'm using conversion factors from engineering school from memory. :nerd: The bullets receive their energy from the arms that sling them. Different masses will be propelled at different speeds, but at similar energies. So. I think it may be reasonable to assign the damage values to the launcher, rather than the missile. However, a case could be made that a larger bullet is in the launcher for a longer amount of time, and therefore could receive more energy in that extra time. But the main issue is force times length of arc, and think these will be similar. I am NOT an expert. I wonder why strength stats don't don't translate into extra damage. Bows and xbows will pretty much be independent of strength, as long as you are strong enough to use them. But a stronger guy can sling harder. Is a sling, like a bow, already being used at it's maximum energy potential?
Actually GA only the bow would be dependent on strength. I mean you can only "cock" back a x-bow so far before its ready to fire. So once you have the strength to fire that weapon youre good, though reload would vary upon strength. I dont believe ive ever had stats drained enough that even my weakest party member couldnt fire. But a bow I understand, Strength should play a factor in reload/fire------fire/distance/speed but it to has breaking points. Anyway ToEE won't ever calculate person size and potential for situation like this.
He? Slings get strength bonus. That's why i give my druids a sling a a high strength score. Plus, in KotB is quite useful This topic is interesting, but i lack the language knowledge to explain why a sling doesn't do damage as a "throwing club". So no more arguing for me :shrug: At the end, is about balance, and game simplicity. For example, why the weapon damage is random? A sword always do the same "base" damage. It doesn't increase their size or anything that alter their weight/mass (without taking into count the edge, or hollow weapons filled with a fluid). It is the wielder who applies the strength, in different manners. So the damge should be base, say a sword does 6 points of damage, and the strength bonus should be rolled by dice.
A self bow, once you pull it back far enough, is no longer pulling forward, but out to the "sides" (up/down). Visualize the bow tips coming together. A composite bow is stronger and less flexible, so may be pulled back harder and deform less. I think a given archer is going to pull back the same each time, though. There is certain to be better knowledge than mine out there. What I know is from similar arguments in college and later. HK - I think the language you want is momentum. The club would have more momentum at a given level of energy. Gracias, for telling me about the sling strength bonus. They seemed to be doing more damage than 1-4. I chalked it up to blunt damage on skeletons. So, to restate what you said: you think base damage should be constant, say 6 for a sword, and strength damage should be random.
Hey HK you mentioned hollow weapons filled with a fluid, this really interests me. Can you give me an example? Maybe a pro's and cons?
i think it depends alot on the sling type i made my necktie one day into a sling when i was bored its accurate as shit once you practice with it but tons of critical misses but for example i tried a leather sling that was done for this purpose. it was a failure. maybe it needs lots more practice?
8 oz bullet , 250 fps = 288.9 foot pounds I am only familiar with foot pounds on a torque wrench, so pleas correct me, if I am wrong. If the impact is distributed across 3 inches of area that would be 1155 lbs delivered. Getting with a base ball thrown by a pro, 5 oz 88mph =756 How fast can you throw a (3 lb?) 1d6 club? Thrown club (weapon) (expert thrower) 130 ft/s 800 J/kg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile#Kinetic_projectiles 2.63lb? =2524 foot pounds delivered. Twice as much So, perhaps 1d4 is suitable after all….. rats
I dunno, i'm not familiar with the exact meaning of the word. To put it simply in example: Think on a thick curtain or with many layers. One that covers a window glass. Now throw a stone as fast/strong as you can, from a certain distance. You'll probably barely break the glass, but the farther you go, the less probability. Now use a club (a baseball bat?). You'll surely break the glass, and go thru the window. A bullet sling has an awesome impact force, due to the force applied by whirling the sling, but at the moment that impacts, the counter force applied by the target nullifies almost all the damage cos the bullet doesn't have something holding it and resisting the counterforce (dammit, i dunno the words!) A club has someone holding it, that counters and hold the counter-force of the target, thus the full force is applied. Now, a pistol bullet works completely different fro a sling bullet. It is much more smaller, and whirls itself, thus i doesn't relies on impact, but in penetrating the target. The shape of a bullet let it travel fast, without losing speed due air resistance, and when impact it has so small mass that the counterforce is very little. Once it pierces, loses almost all the strength, cops the full body of the bullet. Plus, firearms have much more punch than an arm. They're natural undead killers I usually equip my strong characters with these. Yup. More than 10 years ago i made a custom rpg. That system worked fine, since attributes grow with level up. Thus, the more level, the more damage you make (this means either you gain strenth, and you have more skill) Not only fluid. It is known that bseball bats have small balls inside, to give punch. A half filled bottle is, indeed, a deadly basher. There where some medieval weapons that had hollow heads filled with mercury. They where prohibitively expensive, of course, so i think they where something more like an excentricity. This concept is applied in D&D: mercurial sword. You need a special feat to wield mercurial weapons. They have a hollow channel inside, half filled with mercury, so, when the weapon is held, the weight goes to the handle, but when you swing it, the fluid go to the blade, imprinting deadly strength. they're expensive, and very rare, but they do great damage. The dice is increased "1 lvl", so for example, a longsword deals 1d10, and a greatsword 2d8 iirc. Also, the critical is increased to x4 but only at 20 range. pros are ovbious, the cons..not much really, aside of game-balance, you need an extra feat, and they have less hit points than a solid weapon. There are other weapons of that kind in D&D: Gythianky or Gytzherai i don't remeber which is one...the evil ones, wield weapons made of magical mercury-like material; the blade shift and twirls constantly, working exactly as a mercurial weapon, but i think they do even more damage, cos they're not normal weapons. Finally, there's a special item in D&D, that works in a similar way, though is not a weapon per se; there's a jacket, with wide sleeves that have pockets in the border (where you stick out your hand), and in those pockets there are small balls of iron. So, while you look unarmed, you're not. I don't remember at this point if they works as light weapons individually, or if they let you attack without penalization and add damge. I don't have the book at hand to check
Using your new numbers, .5 lb @ 250 fps, I get 650 lb-ft. Using 2 inches of penetration before stopping, I get 3900 lbs, using a 1in bullet, I get over 6000 psi. Ow!
a while ago I made a sling and was impressed with the damage it did. To use it I used the bowling action that anyone familiar with cricket would know (an overhand bowl) took me a couple of trys to get the release point right but after that I was putting big dents in a 44 gallon drum - with a stone which weighed 1-2oz I also tryed it for range and send it almost 1000 feet down the street. with practice and a heavier stone (or lead bullet) you could really mess with peoples heads and imo even damage though armour
There are War Slings in I think Complete warrior or Races of the Wild. They do 1d8. Also my biggest problem is, I believe still uncorrected, the halflings will don't get a +1 to attack with the sling.
Hi Guys, Actually on the History or Discovery Channel they did a "science of the bible" show just around christmas. And they tested the sling theory. Granted they used a national champion, but he hit the target with more than enough force to kill a bear much less a man. As for accuracy, it took several tries but he did hit the target - about the size of a man's forehead at range. As he described it, it was more accurate with less power behind the shot (more control) but less lethal. More power (and the faster stone) decreased the accuracy. JohnBear
