Formalizing the Shopmap

I've been thinking of making some changes to the ToEE shopmap lately, and I wanted to get some community input. First, let me make my case:

I think that the shopmap isn't really an RP environment. It's seems to be moreso another step of pre-game character generation. For example, we never really explain how the party came across the caravan, or never give any RP background on what the caravan is doing there, etc., etc. It's just there, which makes it obvious to me that the 'encounter' is just a function to provide a barter screen for buying custom gear.

In light of that, I think it would be better if we did away with the charade of NPC interaction and instead just fashioned the dialogue to serve as another step (the final one) of the character building process. This could be achieved by changing the dilaogue from the "Well hello there and welcome to the caravan!" variety to a more formal thing wherein Jade Empress talks to you the same way the game talks to you in the earlier stages of character development, e.g., "You may select your starting equipment from the three vendors you see here."

Tangentially, I also think that the proposed modding of this would be a good opportunity to pare down what the vendors offer - eliminate the guillotine blade and other 'offensive' items, and maybe generally limit what's available at that stage. I understand that the idea of the shopmap in the first place was to allow for player freedom, but I don't think that it was ever really appropriate for level 0 players to be walking around in plate mail. That may in fact contribute to our balance issues to some degree.

So, please vote in the poll on both topics and feel free to post any other input you may have. Please vote once for options 1 -3 and once for options 4 - 6.

 

Just a heads up: based on the poll results (thank you all for voting btw), I'll be releasing an updated shop map soon with the powerful/exotic items removed and some other enhancements. The same dialogue based interaction will remain, though some of that may be modified as well to reduce irritation and make it more workmanlike.

I'll proabaly add a few more instances of common items like chainmail and boots and gloves, because it's a pain in the ass not to be able to outfit your entire crew with regular gear while in the meantime there's 1,000,000 GP stuff avaialable that you can't afford.

I think the overall approach will be to more accurately depict what it actually is - a traveling caravan of merchants - since people seem to favor that idea. So they should have a good variety of everyday stuff, very little exotic stuff, and almost no super powered stuff - e.g., no masterwork items, no plus items of any kind, no magic wands, no darkwood bucklers, etc., etc. If a real traveling caravan were to stock that kind of merchandise they'd have to take along a dozen bodyguard type retainers just to protect it all or local bandits and hooligans would surely rob them of it straightaway.

Look for it soon in a CMF thread near you, followed by other improvements which are in development.

 

Update: I'm well on the way to completing the shopmap overhaul, but I need some help. I've got a pretty good handle on the armor and clothing that should be included in the traders' inventory, but I don't really know enough about weapon stats to intelligently determine what's appropriate. I can safely conclude that longswords should be included, for example, but Im not entirely sure about that great double axe or the kamasutra or whatever. (Weapons aren't my bag. :yawn: )

Can an informed modder with some experience volunteer to go through all the weapons in description.mes and determine what's good to go and what's not? The guidelines are pretty simple: no magic weapons, no masterwork weapons, and no regular weapons that can deal an inordinate amount of damage for a 0 level PC. Also no custom weapons that are outside the bounds of normal D&D.

I would really appreciate the help.

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Here's a few tidbits while we wait:

• The shopmap will feature armor up to and including breastplates (AC +5), as well as the custom Co8 stuff within that limitation (chainmail variations, some maggit armor, naked marauder armor, etc.)
  
• The shopmap will now include a wide (hopefully complete) variety of all the Co8 custom clothing done by the maggit, Cujo, and HK types - different colored cloaks and robes, boots, wizard hats, etc., etc., etc. Good stuff for customizing your look. :thumbsup:
  
• Jade Empress will now comment about your OV quest in a minor way, and she won't bitch at you for waking her up at night. She also won't stop killing you anymore if you're foolish enough to attack the caravan. And she's more business-oriented - more 'yes/no' stuff to get you in and out faster instead of 'my but you look like you might be an adventurer' chit-chat. I think you'll like it.
  
• I might as well reveal this now (though I know HK will hate me): Jade Empress' voiceover will be gone. I have grown to hate it, personally, and I strongly suspect that a lot of the negative reaction we get to our custom voices is as a result of players hearing this set right at the start. Even Zorn (the 'director' of the voices project) disliked it, and his wife is the person who did it. Plus, it will simply not fit the modified dialogue anymore anyway. I'll be happy to send the files to you if you still desperately want them, HK.

 

I did make the shopmap, and I have no problem with removing items that are too expensive for starting characters, and those that are quasi-magical items like darkwood shields and adamantine whatever, those items would be rare even in the biggest cities, let alone a traveling caravan. I also like the current intro to the shopmap with Jade empress explaining about the merchants, and suggesting you should rest to learn spells, EVE has a very formal tutorial system, which seems a lot more inhuman (granted it is supposed to be an on board computer providing the tutorial's information, but still) whereas Jade Empress seems more fitting to this situation than a straight "Here's the facts, get on with it" approach.

As far as the weapons that should be included, I feel that all normal, non-masterwork, non-magical weapons should be included, as well as all the exotic and oriental weapons, since Monks start off with proficiency with a lot of them, they should have access to them early on. Also all weapons you can take feats in (weapon focus, weapon specialization, weapon finesse, improved critical etc...) should be represented as some people (like myself) turn off the option to start with these weapons if you select the feat associated with it.

Apart from all that, you can do whatever, and have fun with it.

 

That's going to change too. Jade Empress will now peddle the off-items like crowns and thieves tools and bard instruments herself. I figured I'd add some potions of cure light wounds too (every party should start with some, or have the opportunity to), but I don't want to get carried away with a bunch of other stuff. Let them go see Burne and Calmert later.

 

Another request ...

We could use some custom inventory icons for some of our custom gear that currently just hijacks existing inventory icons. And other considerations. Any takers? Maggit?

We need custom inventory icons for:

• plain chainmail (could probably use the original chainmail icon for this, and make a model with red in the center for the original chainmail mesh that is red in-game)
• fine chainmail (can't remember what it looks like in-game atm. uses same old chainmail icon)
• golden chainmail (fancy looking stuff with what looks like leather trim. uses same old chainmail icon)
• three variations of existing leather armor (could use the torso inventory model to make two more. there are supposed to be black, reddish, and grey models.)
• black studded leather (looks like black banded mail in-game. uses the original studded leather icon. maybe we should just make this 'black banded mail?')
• original hide armor (uses same icon as druid hide, or vice-versa)
• Cujo's scale mail variation (uses original icon. could use a midriff-baring version to depict in-game model. this is the armor that all sensible scale mail wearing babes use when they're feeling sexy)

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More for clothing ...

• black dress (currently uses the robe icon)
• corset (currently uses the robe icon)
• oriental garb (fancy stuff with a flowing white skirt that currently uses the green elven chain icon)

Last ... items

• hoodless circlet (currently uses the nice circlet icon. maybe something utterly blank to show that it kills the hood?)

 

Why do all the interesting discussions happen while I'm asleep?

Ted doesn't remember this, but if he did say that, it was probably based on the fact 0rion claimed to have some sort of workaround going. Ted recants and seeks absolution.

They are most certainly not correct rules-wise and most definitely should be left off the shop-map: ditto the Spear of Keoland.

On a tangential topic, Gaear, can you set the Drow armour to be masterwork? I had a request for this from someone who consoles it in for its looks. I think thats fair enough - if we make stuff, people will use it (though that shouldn't be sold at the start either, of course).

Also, good initiative Gaear. Don't be surprised if the KotB shop-map ends up looking remarkably similar

Regarding Jade Empress, perhaps the Co8 patch could come in Jade-Empress-voiced and non-Jade-Empress-voiced versions? Seperate downloads in the Downloads section? And where IS the Downloads section? Could we please have a seperate Downloads section, with some stickied downloads in it? :icon_chuc