New Feats for the ToEE Engine

Discussion in 'ToEE Toolset Project Documentation' started by Shiningted, Dec 23, 2007.

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  1. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Since I am not a 3.5 expert, I am putting this thread forward for people to suggest feats that might be (relatively) straight-forwardly added to the game. I will update this first post as things are tested.

    Improved Precise Shot: Unlikely

    RAW: allows you to ignore the cover bonus (flat +4 to AC in ToEE). 'Your ranged attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by anything less than total concealment.'

    Problems: Cover cannot be scripted around, to the best of my knowledge. Also, ToEE does not recognise this feat (too high a level). A pity since it is a bonus feat for Rangers at higher level.

    Workaround: Allow a flat +2 bonus? Or some other appropriate bonus? Hard to add an attacking bonus for specific weapons types... the fact it is not recognised by the game can be got around by using another feat in the scripting, and just changing the 'surface files' to say 'Improved Precise Shot'.

    Far Shot: In game now! Testing still needed to make sure

    RAW: Increases 'range' - 'When you use a projectile weapon, such as a bow, its range increment increases by one-half (multiply by 1½). When you use a thrown weapon, its range increment is doubled.'

    Problems: Had to be done with a script, which is a less elegant method but seems to work. Any ranged weapon equiped when you take the feat has to be reequiped (into inventory and back again) once, but thats a small price to pay.

    Leadership: Possible

    RAW: Allows someone to attract appropriate cohorts.

    Testing: Doesn't recognise the prerequisite (6th level character).

    Problems: As above, + would have to add cohorts to the game (1 per alignment - more than 1 per alignment if we want variety). Doable.

    Improved Shield Bash: WIP

    RAW: 'When you perform a shield bash, you may still apply the shield’s shield bonus to your AC.'

    Testing: 'Shield weapons' can be made, but the model doesn't look right. Many animations already allow for this offhand attack (2wf?) but the shield, when in shield mode, is held at the wrong angle and just plain looks wrong.

    Problems: As above, + only very specific shields could be used, as a 'shield weapon' would have to be swapped out for a normal shield by scripting. Doable.

    Deft Hands: Removed - not supported by engine as expected.

    RAW: +2 to Sleight of Hand and Use Rope checks.

    Problems: One of the current ToEE feats already gives a +2 bonus to Sleight of Hand (I forget which one - probably Acrobatic) as a workaround for the non-existance of something else, so a 1st level character with high dex and both feats could have a Sleight Of Hand score in double figures (slightly unbalanced).

    Animal Affinity: In game now!

    RAW: You get a +2 bonus on all Handle Animal checks and Ride checks.

    Problems: We don't have ride, and we ain't going to...

    Workaround: The synergy provided to Wild Empathy (now being implemented) by Handle Animal (now being implemented) and the importance of Handle Animal as it will be implemented (people are NOT going to want to have untrained animals!) mean this may still be a desirable feat. Also, it could have plot-related connotations.

    Deceitful: Potentially Doable

    RAW: 'You get a +2 bonus on all Disguise checks and Forgery checks.'

    Problems: For KotB at least, I have no particular intention of adding Forgery: there just aren't enough opportunities to use it.

    Workaround: A possible workaround would be to give a +2 bonus to Bluff instead, in scripted Bluff moments, such as the rolled Bluff checks. It would not, though, add to straight Bluff checks as the game does them via dialogue, (albeit these are being fazed out) nor Bluff attempts in combat, so the appeal of this feat is reduced unless it can be established it works and the .dll can be hacked to change the 'recipient' skill from Forgery to Bluff.

    Otherwise, if Forgery were implemented, it could go straight in.

    Greater Two Weapon Fighting: Unlikely

    RAW: You get a third attack with your off-hand weapon, albeit at a -10 penalty.

    Problems: The game doesn't seem to recognise the feat, and does not give you the option of taking it when the prerequisites are fulfilled. This most certainly means there is no subsequent coding associated with it even if we somehow got it to be selectable.

    Greater Weapon Specialisation: Unlikely

    RAW: You gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon, stacking with WS.

    Problems: As above, the game doesn't seem to recognise the feat, and does not give you the option of taking it when the prerequisites are fulfilled.

    Eschew Materials: Doable with overhaul of spellcasting system

    RAW: You can cast any spell that has a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component.

    Problems: Every spell would have to be re-worked to take material components into consideration. I'd do it, but people complain whenever I suggest it :sadblinky
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
    Shiningted, Dec 23, 2007
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  2. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    New feats?

    COOL! :cool:

    A few suggestion from an avid rpg book reader, i don't know well which ones could be supported by engine, or are hardcoded:

    Monkey grip: Allows to use large weapons in one hand, leaving the other free, albeit a -1 penalty. No two wielding, so isn't posible to use another weapon for a second attack. Can use shields, or carry/use items (in ToEE this is useless... unless rods are implemented ;) ) in the free hand (no shield bashing).
    Small characters could use medium sized weapons the same way.

    Zen Archery: instead of the dexterity bonus you can apply the wisdom bonus to ranged attacks.

    Dash: you add 5 feet to your base movement if you're wearing light or no armor and have a light load.

    Lingering Song: PRE Bardic music hability. BENEF if you use bardic music for Inspire competence, courage or greatness, effects last long twice the normal

    Extra music: PRE Bardic music hability. BENEF you can use bardic music 4 extra times per day. SPE a character can buy this feats many times.
     
    Half Knight, Dec 23, 2007
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  3. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Ahhhh... not core rules, are they? ;) I think only Monkey Grip could be implemented (of those) but hey, its a start.

    C'mon folks, get those brains in gear!
     
    Shiningted, Dec 23, 2007
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  4. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Woops, you meant core rules feats...

    Anyway, those are from the classes books (Sword and fist for fighters-monks, and Song and silence for Rogues-Bards), not from another setting. So tecnically speaking, they are core rule "help". ;)

    I thought that Dash would be the most difficult...isn't posible to make them work like already working feats?
    Zen archery works like weapon finesse
    Extra music works like Extra turning
    Lingering Song works like Extended Spell


    Since it's already in the list, Sunder could be useful, but just for items equiped in the weapons slots cos i don't think that you can make an aimed strike. Basically making an automatic feat, so if you activate it then Sunder applies only to weapon/shield or wathever the target is carrying "in hands". Since you basically make damage to the weapon that would mean having hp for each item, and some way having the engine keep arecord of damage atken, so for sanity, the attempt could be simplified "failure" or "succes" witha saving throw or something like that.

    Another interesting:

    Multicultural: PRE speak language ( chosen race) ;). Choose another humanoid race not being yours. Each time you find members of that race, they probably will treat you like one of them. You gain +4 on charisma checks to alter the attitude of chosen race.
     
    Half Knight, Dec 23, 2007
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  5. Fernando

    Fernando Established Member

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    @Improved Precise Shot: Maybe it could have a workaround a-la-Weapon Specialization. At the given level, a Ranger gets a +2 with the selected kind of weapon...

    Improved Shield Bash     sounds too difficult to pull it off; still, if it's doable, it could be good. Leadership should be a nice thing, I believe. Sunder, also, would be a really nice thing to have, but seems hard to put it in the game.

    I don't remember if Diligent (+2 on Appraise and Decipher Script checks) is in the game; if it's not, maybe it could be implemented.


    Could Improved Familiar be implemented? Maybe with some workaround, like that you have to dismiss your familiar and THEN take the feat, dunno. It would be kind of strange, but gives the option to have this feat for anyone who wants to use it...


    BTW, my two cents: why would there not be any official-but-not-core rules? I mean, the ones who came out with booklets or another rulebooks, as long as they're official? I'm not saying "do them, they're easy!", I know this is no easy task, but... if modding is limitated by not having the official rules and lots of things being hardcoded, maybe there could be some "not so known but still official" rules. Just a thought, still...
     
    Fernando, Dec 23, 2007
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  6. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    @Fernando

    if you give Improved precise shot +2 a-la weapon specialization, then you'll have greater focus and point blank shot for a free +5...too much.

    Improved familiar could be great. Frankly, the only problem with that is the level requirement (spellcaster lvl 5 - 7), maybe too high for KotB. But probably most players would end having characters of 10 or more.

    Also, i don't know how to make players could buy it at 7 level.

    Maybe a pet seller? Since the creatures available for the feat are very rare, it wouldn't be so strange to have a specialized guy making profit of it. Maybe the guy who sells/buys skins could be that guy, like some specialized hunter. For a fee, he could find and capture one of those creatures if you have the required Diplomacy skill rank (9 - 11 ranks would do)
    In any case, making the creatures it's the really easy part, since will be just new protos, skins and portraits. :)
     
    Half Knight, Dec 23, 2007
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  7. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Well, this is not just for KotB, its for the game in general. Imrpoved Familiar is an interesting one...

    Homer: Can I get a duck?
    Marge: You already have a monkey!
    Homer: Can he get a duck?

    I seem to have a vague recollection of 'familiars summoning familiars' being an issue in the past (or being discussed). I am not sure how much we can fiddle with the familiar lists, and still get the full benefits, but perhaps having your existing familiar get an improved familiar (then destroying the original) might be one way to go :) Definitely worth looking into it: in fact, the animals are already in the game (well, lots of them from Quasits and Stirges to Co8-added things like Ice Mephits) from the summonable creatures lists.

    O and I am updating the first post to reflect this and that. Keep those ideas coming.

    EDIT: O yeah, we don't have Diligent because we don't have Decipher Script: thats another one of those skills that has to be written in from the beginning to be useful and is better over a campaign than a module. But if we did, then yes, it should work fine.

    2nd EDIT: The problem with non-core rules is not everyone is going to agree on them. Sometimes, non-core stuff is obvious and can go in (like the 'Ray of Clumsiness' spell, which I suggested to Darmagon off the top of my head but turned out to be in some rule-book somewhere, because it was too obvious not to exist). Sometimes it would cause argument, as Monkey Grip did when it was first suggested not long ago. If we can agree, then sure. Also, the game 'recognises' all the core feats and skills up to level 10, even if they aren't activated and don't do anything - others are that much harder to implement. But suggest them, I guess - can't hurt :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2007
    Shiningted, Dec 25, 2007
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  8. exdeath

    exdeath Member

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    they where replaced by 3.5 books, complete warrior, comple divine, complete adventurer..................
    Their rules are not valid anymore.
     
    exdeath, Dec 28, 2007
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  9. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Yes, i know, but i still didn't read those.

    Old feats could be implemented if they don't mess with new rules and /or if isn't already updated/fixed to new edition cos they didn't covered all the feats. (at least, that's what i've been told by a guy in WotC who check that kind of stuff, and acts as editor too)
     
    Half Knight, Dec 28, 2007
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  10. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    my understanding of 3 vs 3.5 was that if something was changed in 3.5 that was the new rule, but if nothing was said about it then 3rd edtion rules still applied
     
    Cujo, Dec 28, 2007
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  11. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Blooded: You know what it means to fight for your life, and the value of quick wits and quicker reactions when blades are bared and deadly spells chanted. Enemies find it difficult to catch you off guard.
    BEN: You get a +2 bonus on Initiative and +2 bonus on all Spot checks

    A good help against the shitty AI (goblins with 25 initiative rolls??? wtf...)

    The player's handbook II has some interesting feats too, i think.
     
    Half Knight, Jan 5, 2008
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  12. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    U know, I am not actually sure how to add initiative bonuses. Its a standard line in every monster's description, but I am not sure how to script it :shrug:

    Otherwise, very good idea :clap:
     
    Shiningted, Jan 5, 2008
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  13. headhunter

    headhunter Member

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    Might be easier to implement leadership as a "blank" feat that does nothing - except get checked for in AI conversation scripts in the various taverns, thus letting the convo do the work of deciding what and how many you get/etc... dunno. Makes sense that you can't just poop out followers alone in the middle of the desert anyway. Not that I know anything about modding ToEE to begin with.
     
    headhunter, Mar 27, 2008
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  14. ben34

    ben34 Member

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    Improved Two weapon Defense: (There is an improved two weapon fighting but not improved two weapon defense) You gain an extra +1 to AC(+2 total when stacked with TWD) and also when fighting defensively you gain +4 to AC(+2 without I-TWF) Correct me if I am wrong but after getting a fighter to lv20 I did not see the option, mabey it exsists I just didn't see it so I wanted to submit my idea for it, thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2008
    ben34, Jun 4, 2008
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  15. ben34

    ben34 Member

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    I just got to thinking about all the improved precise shot ideas and wanted to add that you might be able to make a grater dodge for fighters because the rogue has all his modified dodges(uncanny and evasion ect.) So the fighter may want a Grater Dodge(+2 toAC with dodge stacked) and may even benifit from a Grater Mobility(+8 to AoO with mobility's +4 previous stack) just a humble idea, not sure if will qual, but thought I would run it by ya! Keep in mind that dodge and mobility are fighter "CLASS" feats so the rogue "CLASS" feats are getting improved or grater uncanny dodge and evasion, but nothing is done for higher level fighters after surpasing lv8 except improved critical and grater weapon focus not to mention the bug with not having a grater weapon "SPECIALIZATION"; however it is a typo in v.5.0.5 that really means grater weapon "FOCUS" which is weird because in the non front end version it clearly already says grater weapon focus!? The awsome designers of this mod( I mean no disrespect because I love you guys, gaear and cujo) I hope you can correct this simple typo which will be no problem for them at all I'm sure and wile doing this just add a grater weapon specialization for a double awarded bonus feat(+4 when stacked from the prevouse +2 to damage in weapon specialization)
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2008
    ben34, Jun 4, 2008
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