The Really Big Class Discussion Thread

Ok well, It's a pain posting in 10-20 different threads about all the classes and multiclassing, so this will be the thread to talk about it all.:drunk:

Ideas to discuss:
-Classes
---Ways to use them
-Multiclassing
---Benefits and drawbacks
-Equipment
---Ideal and useful equipment
---Equipment used well in a party
-Strategies
---Using characters together
---Creating an unbeatable party
---How to use classes to their full potential

Think of anything else to discuss as well as long as it has to do with classes/multiclassing/parties, and let's get this rolling.



I've only played for a while but I'm extremely partial to the ranger and cleric. The ranger seems to be more useful in getting a mastery of archery and obtaining a nice bow and a good set of arrows. As I usually use a cleric as well, the need for up close combat is fulfilled and healing is also taken care of. The cleric seems most useful brewing healing potions and then memorizing higher wound infliction spells to use on a harder enemy. Though, the protection from spells are quite useful too, especially protection from evil outsider while in the Temple.

 

I'm a closet ranj0r fan.

But I go two-weapon fighting as I never can be bothered with the bow stuff, plus it's often necessary for me to have another 'body' between the mob and my spellcasters.

I never brew potions as I tend to find that the ones provided ingame are more than adequate as my cleric is backstopped by a druid (usually Meleny).

One class I can never be bothered with is the monk. And the paladin is somewhat useless too if you have a cleric in the group...

 

yeah, I'd use monks alot more if you could multi-class them freely.

 

I have to confess I don't multiclass. Probably because I don't understand the rules well enough but there's also a lingering element of 'I chose a rogue because I wanted a rogue'... :smoke:

 

Toee's good for it now days with the level cap set at 20. I started doing it to avoid bugs that could be encounted at later levels and you can come up with some pretty neat charcters like my sorcerer cleric - party role, healer and buffer dimention door to get thru melee with ease and stay out of trouble or a wizard monk for the monks AC boost. that sort of thing

 

I'm fond of most of the classes, and some odd multiclasses. Only classes I'm not that keen on are the pure, non-multiclassed fighter or monk, and even they can be very effective.

For party leader, a Rogue, Rogue/Fighter/Barbarian, or Rogue/Bard are all good choices. Of the three, the pure Rogue ends up with more skill points than you need in TOEE. Good sneak attacks though. The R/F/B is very effective, with the Barbs Rage, skill points and and extra movement working nicely with the Rogue's sneak attack, and with the Fighter's extra feats helping to keep the character flexible. The Rogue/Bard makes a pretty good archer, and has more than enough skill points for the game; the Bard's songs give a useful boost to the whole party, and Enchantment spells are good for taking out one or two enemies every round.

Other than that, I usually run with a Dwarf Cleric (CON bonus and Dwarven War Axe make for a good front line blocker who can cast spells), a Druid (great crafters, much better blockers than they're given credit for, solid casters both on offense and defense), and a Wizard. Any other party slots can be filled in with almost anything. Clerics/Fighters and Barbarian/Druids make nice extra blockers who can also cast and craft, Sorcerers make good backup leaders and walking artillery platforms.

 

Fighter is from far the killing machine, usually he just requires a little support like few items or buffer spell to resist domination/mental attack. At very high level only the monk and wizard/sorcerer can be a better killing machine, but with D&D rules sorc/wiz requires too many rest if you use them for most battles. The monk is a total pain to play at lower level.

Myself I love pure class, I don't like multi-class when some magic or special feature get very weak because it's level 50% lower. For example pets and summons become useless. Many spells become wuite weak when 50% lower. Even Rogue skill only to 50% can make it a pain with a game requiring good skill for most rogue skills.

The only fun and efficient multiclass I remember is the fighter/cleric party NPC in BG2. This guy was a looser but the mix worked quite well at high levels. That's also a point, often at lower levels multi class can get good, arround 3+3 for example but after there's a long level road where they don't prove that good.

Finally the main problem of multi-class is often to require super hero characters, I currently play with Point-Buy 28, great option to get strong char but not super heroes.

As I don't like much muticlass, for sure my quotes are doubtful.

 

My favourite class is the druid but I don't remember any CD&D game where it's the most efficient class. Often summon, pet and morphing prove soon to be useless. Eventually the balance is a little better than usual in ToEE, not sure.

Another favourite class I had in past was monk, with nevewinter when you don't start at level 1. In Neverwinter at higher levels the monk could get the best AC and it's the faster to clean an army, not that efficient against a single opponent.

In BG there was a sort of unbalance and bow ranger could be dramatically efficient. I often been tempted by paladin but I agree it's not very efficient, often cleric/fighter is a better combination.

For two weapon usage, in BG2 the special class, "sorcerer killer" was dramatically strong (in fact too strong), I think much more than 2Weapon ranger.

 

I usually play with a single character, most often a cleric (Pelor or Gruumsh). That is usually all it takes to singelhandedly take on the game. When I leave Hommlet I'm lvl 3 already and the Moathouse just seem like a breeze, leveling to lvl 6 or so and then a quick side-quest to Emridy Meadows to get the amulet (and/or the figurine) and then to the temple. When I do the broken tower I am usually around lvl 7-8 and after killing Falirinth (spell?) and the other groups (like Scoorp) I end up around lvl 11-12.

After that I just ticking of encounters, buffing myself and resting as soon after as possible. The hardest ones are the battle with Iuz (SO many hits/round!) and the fire-node. Zuggtmoy is very easy.

Try it!

..

When I play with a four/five-char party I usually never take NPC:s with me and most often have one barbarian1/fighterX, one cleric, one rogue (often halfling and two-weapon fighting), one wizard or sorcerer and perhaps a druid, If I feel lazy.

 

Heh wow, a lot of people use big parties of characters, hehe. I'm a lot more favored toward Solo and Partner play. Might just be me but I find it easier to keep track of and play with only 1-2 characters, plus it's a better challenge than going through with a large group, more exp, but easier to die. Especially when you play ironman and they get you surrounded like they do down in the one elemental room in the Temple, that was a pain and I lost my rogue, which I stupidly should have leveled up first. Oh well, but then I just continued to solo with my Paladin and she obliterated everything else in the place.

Let's see, if you could play ToEE online with up to 4 other friends, I would probably always be the Cleric in the party, possibly with a Fighter, Paladin, or Barbarian mix in there if I felt up to it. Just the kind of guy I am.

 

Druids are generally better in ToEE than in most CRPGs. They have a good range of spells, including buffs that stack well with their armor, great area control spells available from the start of the game, and some nice damage spells. The Animal Companions usually soak up a fair number of attacks that would otherwise be directed at party members, and early on do respectable damage. With buffs later in the game, the companions can keep blocking for the party all the way to the final fight. The Brown Bear with Stoneskin, Barkskin, Greater Magic Fang, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, and Cat's Grace can stand up to almost anything in the game other than a node guardian for a few rounds. The summoned creatures individually do only moderate damage, but that moderate damage isn't stopped by spell resistance, you can drop them right in the middle of the enemy or next to casters, and they soak up attacks that would otherwise be sent at party memebers. Druids are also good item and weapon crafters.

I don't like Wildshape as compared to just kitting the Druid out with good items, but it is cheaper.

 

Play with single char for games like ToEE seems like the wrong game choice. Ok people do what they want!!! For many reason it won't be the more fun, tactical, game diversity, general adventuring and probably even on a challenge point of view.

 

The class that is essential to any unbeatable party is most definitely the bard.

Most people like to think of them as versatile or a jack of all trades, but in my opinion they are that and also very specialized, making them a must-have.

So, firstly, with the versatility aspect: they can cast buffs, heals, make good melee or ranged fighters, provide inspirations and musical effects that no other class can. They can be stealthy in their prefered light armors. They can substitute for a rogue if necessary and even handle traps if a bit of rogue training is taken.

For the specialization: they easily make the best party spokesperson, with charisma as their primary focus. Similarly they can manipulate magic devices the best, using magical items that other classes could not, including very efficient uses of powerful wands and scrolls, class/race/alignment prohibited equipment. But my favorite area for my bard to specialize in is magical enchantment effects. A very charismatic bard focusing in the enchantment school can compete even with the most powerful magic users like wizards and sorcerers when casting enchantments like sleep, or charms or hold spells. They can effectively turn the tides of the most dangerous encounters using this powerful arcane magic.

Could go on with the bard love, but in summary they are incredible! I have one in my current ToEE adventure and he does all of this very well. Too bad some of the musical aspects of the bard were not implemented properly in ToEE, that's the only complaint I have.

 

I like bards as well but in my latest party I wanted to keep small - wizard (craft wand of knock) cleric (trickery domain + high Cha = party face) and a fighter.