How about a full Ranger party?

I remember finishing ToEE back in the day (one of the bad endings iirc!) and was planning on doing a second run. Sadly life got in the way and I never got around to do it.

My original plan was to have a party full of Rangers, and then let the rest of the critical roles be taken by the recruitable characters.

Thing is, I don't remember exactly what I wanted to build! I'm reasonably sure most of them were multiclass rangers, taking ranger levels for dual wield / archery mastery / animal companion / whatever. I think I had in mind:

str-based dual wielding ranger
dex-based dual wielding ranger/thief
dex-based bow wielding ranger/druid (do animal companion levels stack in 3.0?)
..etc


So... anyone got some decent Ranger ideas that I can use on my Co8 run?

 

I thought you said "decent Ranger" for a minute? Plate Armour/Armor was especially invented for people who propose to stand still and hit things ( a prerequisite of dual wielding weapons)

A dual-wielding Ranger with very high dexterity misses the main "benefit" of dual-wielding rangers

If the feat "Outlaw Hunter" existed in D&D a bow wielding Rogue/Ranger would be viable but you'd get your Ranger bonus feats late
if the feats "Swift Hunter and "Greater Manyshot" existed in Templeplus a bow wielding Scout/Ranger would be viable, but you are going to have the timings of all your Ranger bonus feats thrown out by your Scout levels

 

Not sure I got the first reference. Wasn't the dual wielding, plate wearing ranger a thing in d&D3?

I get what you're saying about the dex ranger. I guess 2 levels get you some basic ranger stuff but lose 1d6 sneak, right? Maybe not much point unless for the "theme"

Is there any ranger multiclass that works? I used to do ranger builds for nwn, but it's been awhile...

 

3.5 Rangers are stuck with light armour (Chain Vest) so 16-17 dexterity gives you Ac17 (AC14 vs sneak attacks)

 

Got it, was mixing it up with Pathfinder I guess where dual wielding is fine with heavy armor.

I'm running out of feasible ideas... Ranger/assassin?!

 

Assuming you're running Temple Plus since you mentioned Assassin.

Temple Plus gives you the option of adding levels of Swashbuckler to a Dex/weapon finesse Two Weapon fighting Ranger/Rogue, plus the feat Daring Outlaw which lets you stack Swashbuckler and Rogue levels for sneak attack, plus Craven which... well, suffice it to say this combo will get you nasty results if you're after dual wielding for maximum pain. You'll eventually out-damage fighters by a long shot, and thanks to high dex, mithral chain shirt, and various other items introduced by C08 NC, you won't have problems with AC. Or use Greater Invisibility or Dust of Disappearing - 50% miss chance before AC is even accounted for, plus free sneak attacks with +2 AB bonus, without worrying about flanking. This is a pretty textbook/standard setup, nothing special; by midlevels you'll be doing about 5d6+10 dmg on each hit with 3 to 4+ attacks/round and if you really invest you can do more.

Of course, you don't have great options vs things that are immune to sneak attack (wouldn't surprise me if someday Temple + introduces the line of feats that lets you sneak attack undead, elementals, etc though I'd say that might be overkill) but the base game features mostly foes that have organs you can skewer just fine.

If you're not using Temple Plus, TWF Ranger/Rogues can still be effective. If you're mostly going for Ranger levels, honestly Rangers are decent at fighting their favored enemies but that's about it in this game, which lacks the utility of other things Rangers do well in tabletop (or perhaps mods like Keep on the Borderlands).

 

Just using Co8 sorry for not mentioning it

 

If you don't have Temple Plus you don't have access to Assassin.

Base game Ranger/Rogue can do just fine though early lvl play is tricky. Start with Rogue at lvl 1 so you can maximize the x4 hefty amount of skills Rogue gives you. Mix in enough Ranger lvls to beef up HP and add the free TWF (two weapon fighting/dual wielding) feats, though Rogue levels is what provide the punch with sneak attacks. Make sure you have enough Tumble so you can eventually make the dc 15 check without fail (which allows you to slip into position for TWF sneak attacks much more safely). The trick will be to keep him healthy and effective during early levels while he's still squishy and lacking gear (TWF means an additional -2 minimum to AB and new PCs in this game whiff a LOT as is, so I would avoid it at the start); you'll probably want to be very judicious with up close and personal combat til at least lvl 3 when Weapon Finesse kicks in (Temple Plus you can get it at lvl 2 by adding Swashbuckler).

This game isn't that hard so any themed party can work, but generally, adding Ranger levels to everyone is a good way to de-optimize your party, especially if you're skimping out/self nerfing primary casters. But I suppose it's kind of a fun theme, though the main campaign is not very wilderness/nature oriented. Everyone having access to Survival as a class skill will help with random encounters I suppose... and you can make a party of Goblinoid haters which can have a fun backstory (?) and will help vs all the Bugbears, etc.

Out of all your initial ideas, STR based TWF ranger will probably be the least effective as he's most likely going to have poor AC (chain shirt dual wielding without investing in DEX) while not being able to make full use of his STR - generally 2handed weapons synergize best with STR and TWF synergizes most poorly with it. If you want someone beefy that hits hard you're better off with mostly fighter in heavier armor with maybe a bit of Ranger just to keep up the theme. Or just recruit Elmo. It's notable that they didn't know what to do with the recruitable NPC Elmo who in the original game's module was a very beefy STR based Ranger back when such a thing made sense. He's been turned into a Fighter with lots of cross class (mediocre) skills in Ranger-y skills because in core 3.5e rules a STR based Ranger just doesn't work that well. It's probably a better decision mechanically but loses the theme/flavor of original Elmo.

 

You may have thought of Minsc the plate armored Ranger from the Baldur's Gate series.

D&D 3.5 Ranger is in an awkward spot, especially in ToEE. You don't need Tracking, and most physical damage is STR-based. Perhaps the best 'Ranger' build you can make is full Ranger but with high STR & DEX and you focus on slings.

2-handing weapons gives bonus STR to damage (1.5x STR instead of 1x) and improves Power Attack damage (2:1 instead of 1:1).

Ranger spells tend to be weaker versions of Druid spells, but even a 1-level dip lets you use wands.

A 1-level Ranger dip is a handy way to get +2 damage to Iuz & Cuthbert in the final Demons & Demigods quest.

In short, Ithildur's post above summarizes things well.

 

k I've added TemplePlus What other Ranger multis can I benefit from or try?

And does the D&D3.5 implementation have any issues with offhand weapon sizes like D&D3.0 did? (no longswords on OH etc)

 

There is a feat which allows you to use a longsword in both hands without additional penalty. This is implemented in TemplePlus.

How about a wood elf Ranger4/Abjurer2/Abjurant Champion5/Ranger7/Eldritch Knight2? You should be able to get away with dual wielding with this one.

 

Can you explain the concept please?

 

Actually I think I'd try wood elf Ranger4/Abjurer2/Abjurant Champion5/Arcane Archer 9

 

All classes save the Abjurer are full BAB so you end up with +19 BAB
The abjurant champion is a remarkable full BAB, full arcane caster level increase prestige class over five levels which adds class level to the effect of shield spells and doubles the duation of your abjuration spells. You really need to Google abjurant champion 3.5.

Note by Abjurant champion 5 you Shield spells are +9 and you have a couple of Stoneskin spells a day.

Your AC will be Mage Armor(+4) plus Shield Spell(+9), plus dexterity plus ring of protection

I would go archery ranger with the following feats

1. Two weapon fighting
3. Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
6. Combat Casting
9. Improved 2 weapon Fighting
12. Greater two weapon fighting

 

Ah so the concept is of a character that casts protective spells to make up for the lack of armor.

And you're saying ideally archer, but doable as well as DW?

Would an archer benefit from those protective spells actually?