So, TemplePlus exists.

Hi, can you send me the saves?
A few users have submitted such reports, but they mysteriously stopped crashing so I'm having trouble fixing it...

 

I think I'll wait to update then (no auto-update ability for me)

 

I'll send my saves in the next few days, in the middle of moving and my den is in pieces right now.

 

How do I send you the saves?

 

I had to .rar the files to upload them.

Thanks for taking a look SA.

 

You need to zip the files from [ToEE folder]\modules\save. The necessary files are of the .tfai, .tfaf, .co8 and .gsi extensions.

 

Hey,

the particular crash is already fixed in the dev build, which you can grab here until the next update (hopefully out by sunday).

https://ci.appveyor.com/project/shartte/templeplus/build/0.1.0-pre+1377/artifacts

It'll also contain a preview of the new Dungeon Master feature

 

So, Temple+ exists, and is now up to version 1.0.38, meaning that the Favored Soul is available as a new divine caster from the word go, and the arcane archer now exists as a prestige class. What I can't find definitive info on how these have been implemented.

I'd be interested to know how people here would build an arcane archer. Assuming that it works as per D&D (no spellcasting progression), I would want as many caster levels as possible to be able to do stuff with the Imbue Arrow ability; then again, Wizards and Sorcerers only get to BAB of 6 at level 12, so a full arcane caster switching to AA would be a 14th level character by the time Imbue Arrow came on-line. Conversely, Fighter (or other full BAB character) 6, Wizard 1 leaves you with virtually no casting- as a 9th level character you finally get the Imbue Arrow ability, and have the spells of a lvl 1 Wiz to use it with, while going Bard gets you your earliest AA level at level 9, (and Imbue Arrow at 10th), but limits you to the Bard spell-list, and caps out at 1 solitary 3rd level spell per day when you enter AA.

I have to say that my experience so far with prestige classes that combine arcane casting with something is that they tend to operate like Wizards with delayed casting, rather than as their 'fluff' suggests that they will. My Eldritch Knight was 4 points of BAB and about 25hp behind where a pure Fighter would have been when he took his first EK level [Wiz 7, Ftr 1, EK1], and focussing on Int meant that he didn't have the Str or Con to compensate. He ended up not too bad in combat thanks to getting an accelerated program of stat-boosting items and a rapier with speed and other enhancements, but he was still less effective than a front-line warrior-type, and while he was better casting spells, he obviously wasn't as good a Wizard as he would have been if he hadn't dropped 2 levels worth of casting on the way.
My Arcane Trickster was the same, apart from she dropped even more casting levels, and I don't think I ever got off a magical sneak-attack with scorching ray or similar, because as the primary arcane caster her job was the area-effect and battlefield control stuff.
Mystic Theurge was okay: obviously her casting of both types was delayed by 3 levels, but early in the game she went Clr first while the EK went Wiz, and as the divine casting slowed up after level 4 I just used more potions to make up for missing healing spells (easy enough in this game). [Weak Wiz + weak Clr] > [weak Wiz + weak non-caster].

I did like the Assassin: late in the game the ability to provide their own improved invisibility spells was useful, and check-free use of wands of true strike meant that they could contribute something against the demons in the nodes (Wizard casts improved invis on them, and gives them a wand of true strike, allowing a guaranteed hit every other round with a holy, cold longbow for about 10d6 damage a time). As a fan if sneak attack damage, getting a new dice a level sooner felt nice, though again it delays BAB, and thus iterative attacks, by a level too.

I do appreciate that these are inherent weaknesses of the prestige classes as written by the designers of the D&D game at a time when they probably didn't really appreciate how the game was balanced, and in no way the fault of the wonderful people behind the Temple+ project. Nor do I want to suggest that playing with limits on spellcasting power has not been fun- in fact quite the opposite, since casting is the most powerful thing in the game, and once you know how to use your spellcasters effectively the game can become too easy. From that point of view, trying out a Favored Soul looks interesting: no turn undead, a smaller choice of spells, and no domain spells, plus you need to spend a feat to wear heavy armour.

Another thought that comes to mind is recruiting Pishella as the main arcane caster, and continuing to split her levels between Wiz and Sorc: lots of spells, but with a ceiling on the spell level available...
I did also try a Dwarven Defender in the same party as my MT and EK. He was pretty good: while the defensive stance ability is more limited in application than a Barbarian's rage, and by the time you get it you have moved on beyond the parts of the game where you want to be wedging yourself in doorways to force all the enemy to fight your tank one by one (it would be great to have for the Lareth fight, and for level 1 of the temple), it does mean that fear effects don't make you run away from Balors or Demon Fungus Goddesses, which means that you can keep whacking away with your answering sword or holy magic polearm of as much enhancement as you can afford to give him.

 

Pishella has been waiting 13 years for someone to introduce the Ultimate Magus prestige class into ToEE....

 

You know, If one was to "box section" the post , it makes a great players style overview of the Prestige Classes

 

1 Above post now edited to double-space my paragraphs to break up the wall of text.

2 Anyone care to suggest how they would go about building an Arcane Archer?

2.1 I'm leaning towards Wiz 12 -> AA, since that at least allows level 6 spells.
2.2 If AA gave Pathfinder spellcasting progression (+1 level of existing class for 7 out of 10 AA levels) then Ftr/ Rgr entry with a single Wiz level might be viable.
2.3 Thief or Assassin levels, coupled with enchanted weaponry, would appear to be a more reliable way of adding additional damage to bowfire than Arcane Archer.
2.4 If Imbue Arrow is the main ability of interest, D&D3.5 AA works best as a variant of primary arcane spellcaster, perhaps even as a 2-level 'dip'. In this context, 2 levels of casting progress and needing BAB +6 to obtain it makes Imbue Arrow pretty expensive compared to Natural Spell, even if Wild Shape is quite weak in TOEE compared to D&D generally.
2.5 If one relegates Imbue Arrow to being of only minor interest, and goes for Ftr/Rgr 5, Wiz 2 to meet the entry requirements, are the other class features sufficiently good to compare with other archery builds? Death Arrow comes on-line at 17th level, once per day, at which point one gets 'free' +5 arrows, on the other hand a Rogue 17 is firing 4* arrows per round with 9d6 sneak attack damage* each (* At 17th level, archer-Rogues should always fight with Greater Invisibility and Haste effects in place, unless the combat is so trivial that they are not required).
​

3 In general, it appears that some of the DMG prestige classes were compiled without consideration of the level requirements to enter them. Enchant Arrow+1 is a far less impressive ability if one considers that it only becomes available at a minimum character level of 8; similarly Defensive Stance is less impressive when one considers that Barbarian Rage is available at level 1.

4 If, as with Favored Soul, there is interest in adding non-core classes (as opposed to just prestige classes) in Temple+, could I put in a request for the Swashbuckler, and the Daring Outlaw feat?

​

 

I don't intend to add more classes, except perhaps the Dragon Disciple, but the platform is now there for user mods of that sort.

Likewise, you can edit the existing classes if you feel they are too underpowered - I'm sure folks would love to see that kind of mod. I've seen some tinker with it but no published mods have come out as of yet.

 

Thanks for the reppy.
I'm not really a programmer or coder, but I'd be keen to have a go of there 8s a degree of logic tonhow these things are set up. How would I go about looking 'under the hood' at adding/ modifying feats and classes (prestige or otherwise)?

 

You can find most of the relevant info on the modding wiki:
https://github.com/GrognardsFromHell/TemplePlus/wiki/Modding

As mentioned in the quickstart section, you'll probably want to unpack tpgamefiles.dat and poke around there - that's where all the new classes and feats are defined.