Icewind Dale: ToEE - Total Conversion

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale Total Conversion' started by Allyx, May 7, 2016.

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  1. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    So what's game.area 0 (an unimportant place)?

    Or should I not use that one at all?

    Edit: I have edited those changes in temple.dll, hopefully successfully - but not completely yet as I still have more maps to add later. And as IWD's total map count exceeds 115 (by 10?) I will have to move one map (the Orc Cave map) to another map number (currently 119), as I'll need to use game.area[0] for the other 10.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  2. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Yeah, like I said in the linked post game.area[0] corresponds to the value 0D. That is also the default value.

    Other than that as I mentioned there's hardcoding for 3 particular maps:
    5121 - game.areas[14]
    5132 - game.areas[15]
    5108 - game.areas[16]
     
  3. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    It's not a challenge, it's an opportunity :) Getting all the maps to show their proper area in saves etc is great. Also, keep in mind the associations for the quest tabs. Pity we can't do more than 3 of those because so far I have got quests at Easthaven (a few), Severed Hand (a few), Kuldahar Pass (1), Kuldahar (some), Vale of Shadows (only 1) and doubtless more to come. None in the Forgotten God Temple but outcomes that may be best expressed in ToEE as quests (or maybe reputations - saving the peasants, etc). I would lump all the urban ones (Kuldahar / Eastahaven) under a tab called 'Ten Towns', but that's just me.

    Did you try the map in-game?
     
  4. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I've not tried that world map yet Ted, I've been using the one Gaear made earlier.
    But no harm in trying this one out and giving it a spin so to speak.

    Where are the quest tab titles located then? And how are they also linked? to game.area[numbers]?

    I'll start searching for a complete quest list for IWD this morning unless @ineth has one available already, in an effort to futureproof the quest tab limit then but the "Ten Towns" tab for Easthaven/Kuldahar Pass/Kuldahar/Vale of Shadows seems a good start.

    @Sitra Achara I don't suppose increasing the quest tab limit with Temple+ is on the cards any time soon huh?
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  5. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Gaear already did a Worldmap??? Haiyoola, I didn't realise... his looks better, I'll add buttons to that. (People should pick me up when I say stupid things - I had to buy IWD to realise how dumb my "someone help with the portraits!" pleas sound for a game that has no portraits...)
     
  6. ineth

    ineth Member

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    IWD:EE quest hubs
    Kuldahar is not one of the Ten-Towns. In fact, it's probably quite a distance away.

    The IWD main map screen is more artistic than realistic, so it doesn't show this very well. But Easthaven on that screen is actually meant to be behind those mountains, in the plains beyond (i.e. in the actual dale called Icewind Dale).

    Kuldahar isn't even part of the Forgotten Realms canon outside of the IWD games.
    But the Ten-Towns are, and some other landmarks that appear in these games as well.
    Here's an attempt I once made to place Kuldahar on a Forgotten Realms map, based on the journey taken in IWD2: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/605325/#Comment_605325

    (And yes, it's a little ironic that a game called "Icewind Dale" only spends the beginning and end in said dale, and for most of the game you're scrambling through the mountains south of it, and the dale itself isn't even shown on the world map screen. The HoW expansion and IWD2 sequel spend more time up there though.)

    In any case, if you can only define three quest-hubs, I would use this as a start:
    1. Ten-Towns (Easthaven, and if you convert the Heart of Winter expansion also Lonelywood)
    2. Kuldahar (Kuldahar Pass, Kuldahar, Vale of Shadows, Temple of the Forgotten God, Dragon's Eye)
      • Technically those things aren't all part of Kuldahar, but they aren't too far away, and you're sent there on missions from Kuldahar, and pretty much all quests are related to Kuldahar (e.g. the villagers you save in Dragon's Eye, are Kuldahar villagers).
    3. Dorn's Deep (Upper Dorn's Deep, Wyrm's Tooth, Lower Dorn's Deep)
      • Those three areas naturally belong together, and there's plenty of quests there to justify making it a quest hub.
    The only area unaccounted for, then, is the Severed Hand. It does have a few simple quests.
    One could group it with Kuldahar, since you're sent there on a mission from Kuldahar, but it is so far away that it may seem weird, and side-quests like restoring the arboretum of the Severed Hand don't really have anything to do with Kuldahar.
    Lore-wise, it would probably make more sense to group it with Dorn's Deep, since they are supposed to be reasonably close to each other and share a common history...
    Long before humans started to settle the region, the Hand of the Seldarine was a glorious elven fortress, and Dorn's Deep a glorious dwarven fortress, and they were in close relations with each other, i.e. the dwarves would forge weapons and armor, and the elves would enchant them, and together they stood up to the monsters of the region. Until they started to distrust each other, and as a result it all went to shit and both groups were annihilated and their fortresses became abandoned/monster-infested ruins (with the former Hand of the Seldarine going down in history as the Severed Hand). And these ruins are what the IWD party now explores...
    The only problem, then, would be to find a good name for that combined quest hub, especially since the player doesn't normally learn about the existence of Dorn's Deep (and that you'll travel there) until the end of the Severed Hand chapter of the game, so calling it "Severed Hand and Dorn's Deep" from the start might be considered a spoiler.
    And calling it something like "South face of the 'Spine of the World' mountains" might be too long and awkward.
    Is it possible to change the name mid-game, so that it is called "Severed Hand" at first but then as soon as you visit Dorn's Deep the quest hub name changes to "Severed Hand and Dorn's Deep"?

    IWD:EE quests
    I posted a list of all quests (technically, quest journal entries) earlier in this thread:
    http://www.co8.org/community/index....ee-total-conversion.11868/page-21#post-141402
    Is this not what you need?

    EDIT: Here, I made a table of quest titles and their corresponding world map locations:
    Code:
    Quest                                          | Given in        | Also updated in
    -----------------------------------------------+-----------------+--------------------------------
    Damien's fish                                  | Easthaven       |
    The dream song                                 | Easthaven       |
    A bottle for Old Jed                           | Easthaven       |
    Apsel's wolf problem                           | Easthaven       |
    The missing caravan                            | Easthaven       |
    The fishmonger's supply problems               | Easthaven       |
    
    An ogre with a headache                        | Kuldahar Pass   | Kuldahar
    Aldwin's claim                                 | Kuldahar        |
    
    Mirek's heirloom                               | Kuldahar        | Vale of Shadows
    [Trip to the Vale to find source of the evil]  | Kuldahar        | Vale of Shadows
    [Stopping Lysan for Kresselack]                | Vale of Shadows |
    
    [Trip to the TotFG to find the Heartstone Gem] | Kuldahar        | Temple of the Forgotten God
    
    [Trip to Dragon's Eye for the Heartstone Gem]  | Kuldahar        | Dragon's Eye
    Conlan's son                                   | Kuldahar        | Dragon's Eye
    [Rescuing villagers from the Lizard king]      | Dragon's Eye    |
    [Dealing with Presio]                          | Dragon's Eye    |
    [Exposing the fake Temple of Eldath]           | Dragon's Eye    |
    [Rescuing villagers from the Yuan-ti]          | Dragon's Eye    |
    
    Mythal lore                                    | Kuldahar        | Severed Hand
    [Trip to Severed Hand to find Larrel]          | Kuldahar        | Severed Hand
    [Restoring Larrel's sanity]                    | Severed Hand    |
    Putting spirits to rest: Solonor Tower priests | Severed Hand    |
    Putting spirits to rest: Kaylessa's soldiers   | Severed Hand    |
    [Discovering the fate of Larrel's daughter]    | Severed Hand    | Upper Dorn's
    Restoring the elven shrine                     | Severed Hand    | Wyrm's Tooth
    Restoring the arboretum                        | Severed Hand    | Wyrm's Tooth, Lower Dorn's
    
    [Trip to Dorn's Deep to confront the evil]     | Severed Hand    | Upper Dorn's
    [Finding the six badges to unlock the endgame] | Upper Dorn's    | Wyrm's Tooth, Lower Dorn's
    [Finding razorvine extract for Bandoth]        | Upper Dorn's    |
    [Killing the Umber Hulks for Saablic Tan]      | Upper Dorn's    |
    [Solving the dwarven door puzzle]              | Upper Dorn's    |
    [Destroying Terikan for Norlinor]              | Upper Dorn's    |
    
    [Repairing the draw bridge]                    | Wyrm's Tooth    |
    Freeing the frost giants' slaves               | Wyrm's Tooth    |
    The slaves and the salamanders                 | Wyrm's Tooth    |
    Shadows and whispers                           | Wyrm's Tooth    |
    
    Marketh's ring                                 | Lower Dorn's    |
    The watchtower                                 | Lower Dorn's    |
    Food for Tarnelm                               | Lower Dorn's    |
    Rescuing Guello                                | Lower Dorn's    |
    [Lift the curse of The Voice of Durdel Anatha] | Lower Dorn's    |
    
    [Gain entrance to the frozen Temple]           | Easthaven 2     |
    [Defeat the boss, help Everard seal the portal]| Easthaven 2     |
    The quest titles in brackets aren't actual journal entries, they are just titles I made up for additional quest-like content which was either grouped under the "Important Events" journal entry, or not represented in the journal at all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  7. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    There's a whole bunch of things with higher priority, that's for sure ;)
    Maybe you should keep a list of things to add in a future version for use with Temple+? As I understand it right now you're targeting a basic ToEE anyway, so when you're done with that you could do a second pass with extra features (IWD+).
     
  8. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I am, but only because Temple+ adds a new level of complexity I'm unfamiliar with. I hope for it to be Temple+ compatible at some point, but unless I get some help in figuring out how to use Temple+ as a modding tool, I'll have to mod without it. I'm not deliberately modding a basic mod as a snub to your efforts in bringing us Temple+, in fact I applaud your efforts. I just don't know how it changes what I need to do, to do what I know I can do already without it.
     
  9. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Also not snubbing Temple+, but my personal modding efforts have always had a philosophy of keeping the mod as accessible as the original game (eg playable on Win98, albeit that is not really an issue nowadays). But not in any way restricting it. Temple+ is a logical extension for modern gamers which I absolutely support the concept of, but the mod should not (imho) be exclusively for people in the West with modern machines.
     
  10. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Thanks @ineth, this sounds like a pretty good split to me... especially since the Heart of Winter maps would fall into the game.area[0] category (which is already earmarked for Easthaven).
    Doesn't Heart of Winter have it's own world map?

    EDIT: Yes, it does, and another 5 worldmap locations...

    We may need to make a new custom worldmap to encompass both IWD and the HoW expansion.

    Perhaps like this one below?
    EDIT: Added both Annoted (with suggested IWD map locations for each area) and Plain versions (without).
     

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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  11. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    I have no problem with that, just saying that we both have a ton of things to do before worrying about non-critical features like extra tabs in the logbook, and it didn't seem like the sort of thing to tip over the project to be Temple+ only ;) I didn't mean to imply anything else.

    Like I said there can be a Temple+ version of the mod later down the line with extra polish items such the logbook tabs and other cool stuff I can think of, like Infinity Engine-style dialogue UI, item effects that can't be done in normal ToEE, new domain powers, hot-spot area descriptions and so on. Meanwhile I think the compatibility issues I found can be tackled (I already fixed one issue, like the European font stuff, and the crash issue I had turned out to be a bad sector ;) ), so players who want the extra benefits of Temple+ should be able to enjoy them sooner rather than later.

    Also I think it's great that you're back in the ToEE modding scene - stick around, it's better than any MMO :p
     
  12. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    The 'hover over question marks' for scenery descriptions would be good, and are plot relevant in some situations.

    Re The dual worldmap - I love the idea of that but the downside is, once people are in HoW, they could then come back to Kuldahar etc. My impression is that HoW has to be completed before you can go back home. (Currently in the Luremaster's trials, which are just unimpressive on so many levels... I'm going to reactivate my blog just to have a spew about them).

    An alternative would be all HoW maps are non-worldmap, and when you arrive in (Lonelywood?) you get a map from the Barbarian Druid guy, which activates a dialogue when used and you say, "I want to go to the barbarian Camp" if you have the appropriate global saying you can.

    If this sounds crappy, we can add the appropriate visual versions of the map as slides, then show those between activating the map and getting the dialogue. So you select 'use map', a slide comes up of the map with all the current locations present (we'll need, what, a dozen slides to show the different possibilities? You always get the Barbarian camp first, is that right?) , you look at the slide and decide where you want to go then you use the dialogue to get there.

    No random encounters that way, of course, but that's ok.

    The buttons will be another 24 hours btw, I'm tied up with work today, sorry about that. I'll still do them as is and if we change it all later, no big deal :)

    EDIT: To respond to what @ineth said about the three tabs, something like Settlements (Easthaven / Kuldahar / Lonelywood) Dorn's Deep and Wilderness (everything else) sounds good to me.
     
  13. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I did consider talking signposts to give "travel by dialogue" options for the expansions, the graphics are already available, I didn't know that returning to Kuldahar was not an option once having travelled to Lonelywood. We would have to make world map travel on those maps impossible by regular means, but that's not a problem.
     
  14. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Well I haven't played through HoW yet so if I am wrong someone more IWD-informed can correct me, but that's the impression I get: you have to finish before you can go back to Kuldahar.
     
  15. ineth

    ineth Member

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    That would work too, yeah.

    You can teleport back and forth from Kuldahar (IWD) to Lonelywood (HoW) through dialog with Hjollder.

    Though once you start the HoW portion, you need to progress its main quest a bit before you have a chance to talk to Hjollder and choose that dialog option again.
    Also, most players probably finish the whole expansion before returning.

    Each time you teleport, the world map is switched accordingly.
    Neither of the two worldmaps has any locations of the other, so you cannot travel into or out of the expansion using the worldmap.

    I think it would be sad to loose the beautiful worldmap backgrounds. They do help set the atmosphere for the game.

    If switching worldmaps can't be done in ToEE, then maybe consider releasing the HoW expansion as a stand-alone campaign instead.

    It is already designed so it can be played as a separate campaign: If you start IWD:EE and click "Heart of Winter" in the first menu screen, you can start a HoW-only game where you never have access to any areas of the base game, and it plays just fine (no plot holes or such).
     
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