Icewind Dale: ToEE - Total Conversion

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale Total Conversion' started by Allyx, May 7, 2016.

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  1. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Using files converted directly from an existing IWD installation would serve us well on two fronts:

    1) It insures that ownership of the original is required to make the module run, making any question of piracy somewhat moot.
    2) The module would require a much much smaller download file.

    I did try to upload 1.6 gigs of IWD artwork and video's I'd converted to .bik format, but the craptop decided it was too much effort and failed to complete the transfer :(
     
    Allyx, May 30, 2016
    #226
  2. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    My $0.02

    - Firstly, I essentially agree with Sir Chet - easiest and best way would just be to check for IWD.exe or some essential file from IWD at installation stage (and check size to the byte, which will also weed out cracked versions. Beamdog or whoever might appreciate that).

    - Otherwise, if incorporating actual IWD files into the install - which works well for the two reasons Allyx mentions - that will be a part of the activation process of TFE-X, so it's an Ag question. While I hate to bug Ag when he is busy, I suspect you may find he can do this pretty simply. After all, he wrote the map splitting tool, so incorporating a quick 'search for files to split' from an existing IWD install rather than just ToEEWB/Maps will probably be well within his capabilities (I dare say it's more complicated than that, but as I said, I bet he can do it).
     
    Shiningted, May 30, 2016
    #227
  3. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    If that would satisfy the 'Ownership of the original game' requirement, I'm happy to reproduce the edited map artwork, audio, video, dialogues, slides, story etc... in ToEE readable formats without complicated conversion tools, since I don't know how to make them, especially the maps which require some editing to doors and chests etc...

    Would it also be prudent to contact the owner of the rights to this intellectual property to ask permission for it's use prior to any release version? If so, does anyone know who owns the rights? Is it Beamdog themselves that own them perhaps?
     
    Allyx, May 30, 2016
    #228
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Established Member Administrator

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    If you ask, it's almost certain that the answer will be "no", just because it's infinitely easier than having to deal with anything remotely resembling a yes. Pretty much the only way that these kinds of total conversions ever see the light of day is flying below the radar and nobody caring enough to stop them after they're released. Same as with all the other unofficial mods, basically.
     
    Taluntain, May 30, 2016
    #229
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  5. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    I'm pretty sure that if you include each and every trade mark that has been applied to the IWD series of games you should be able to safely slip by without concerning any who may care.

    The entire i.e. franchise has been bought and sold so many times it's almost impossible to keep up with it. I truly believe WoTC would have found itself on the market if it weren't for the recent YouTube popularity they have garnered.

    If you search YouTube you'll see just how many celebrities have hitched their wagons to the "Lets Play DnD" bandwagon.
     
    sirchet, May 30, 2016
    #230
  6. DarkStorm

    DarkStorm Established Member

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    Do not mix up trademark and copyright law though. Those are very different beasts.

    At the end of the day, if they take offence to what you're doing, they'll issue a DMCA notice and that'll be that.
    At that point, the technicalities will probably not matter much, but the appearances might.
     
    DarkStorm, May 30, 2016
    #231
  7. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    There is no confusion on my part, DS. A trademark is properly used to denote exclusive rights and to identify the origin of said intellectual property.

    Copyright law came into play to protect trademarks, at least here in the US.

    Here's a fun fact!

    Edgar Rice Burroughs registered his fictitious character Tarzan as a trademark; even after the copyright to the Tarzan story expired, his company used ownership of the trademarks relating to the character (which unlike copyrights, do not have a limited length) to control the production of media using its imagery and license the character for use in other works (such as adaptations). This practice is a precursor to the modern concept of a media franchise.
     
    sirchet, May 30, 2016
    #232
  8. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Ok, most of the Easthaven buildings (insides) are completely finished and about half the town map itself, a few more days should finish it.

    I'm struggling (read: completely failed) with the clipping though. Most maps don't need it but a bit in the Inn to frame the doors wouldn't hurt (working doors done and nicely too if I say so myself :)), a few of the buildings on the main map could use some clipping since you will run behind them and there is that huge monstrosity in the temple to worry about.

    @ineth or whoever else wants to answer - is there any equivalent clipping stuff for IE? DAGs or whatever 3d format they use? Did they do proper 3d when making the game or did they just paint the backdrops? I have no idea.
     
    Shiningted, Jun 1, 2016
    #233
  9. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I'll compile a .zip with all the map clipping .bmp files, I'm uncertain what all the colours represent but comparing a few to the actual maps might impart some insight on what's what.
     
    Allyx, Jun 1, 2016
    #234
  10. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Thanks. So there actually is some equivalent? Some IE smarty must have done a converter for 3dMax or something... hmmm... WorldEd will allow you to manipulate a 3d object but you can't just make one in it, you have to have one to work on - simple enough for making a big wall, say, to allow clipping when you run behind a house, but to do justice to that thing in the Temple I will need something more.
     
    Shiningted, Jun 1, 2016
    #235
  11. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Ok, here are what I believe to be either the clipping maps or the sound maps for footfall sounds. As stated before the meaning of the colours is unknown to me, but the file names follow the map AR####, so AR1000SR belongs to map AR1000 etc... there are light maps for day and night and height maps also which are not included due to file upload size restrictions.

    EDIT: These are the SR map files for EVERY map, not just the maps I uploaded before.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
    Allyx, Jun 1, 2016
    #236
  12. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I'm trying to locate the cursors and map icons used by IWD/IE games generally so I may swap out the ToEE versions in favour of these icons to add more IWD/IE flavour but so far my search has been fruitless. @ineth would you know where the cursors and map icons might be?
     
    Allyx, Jun 1, 2016
    #237
  13. ineth

    ineth Member

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    Clipping

    @Shiningted
    There is no proper 3D geometry , just 2D polygons called "Wall Polygons".
    They are stored in the area's WED file as groups of (x,y) coordinates.

    You can view them in Near Infinity's area viewer:

    [​IMG]
    You can see that only the parts of the house that someone might step behind are covered, and that this area is defined by several small polygons rather than one large polygon.

    They were clearly placed by hand (and rather coarsely at that), not generated from 3D data, so I don't think you can automatically generate good 3D data from them in return.

    Height, light, and search map

    @Allyx, the 3 or 4 BMP files that exist for each map aren't used for clipping. They are used to define:
    • AR****HT.BMP : A height map, which tells the engine how to move characters who are "walking" across the surface.

    • AR****LM.BMP : A light map, which tells the engine with what color to tint character sprites at each point. For example when characters stand in the shadow of a tall building, they appear darker/greyer than when standing in direct sunlight.

    • AR****LN.BMP : Same as the previous, but for night time. E.g. at night, characters appear dimly lit by default but become brighter when they are close to a light source. (Indoor maps don't tend to have this one though, they tend to always use the daytime light map.)

    • AR****SR.BMP : A search map, which defines where characters can walk and where they can't. Furthermore, different colors are used to define what type of surface the ground is at each point - e.g. stone or wood or snow etc, which is used by the engine to decide which footstep sound to play when characters are walking.
    Note that these utility maps are relatively coarse... Each pixel stands for a 16x16 px square area of the TIS map (visual area background).


    -------------

    I don't know. They don't seem to be among the MOS files which contain most of the user-interface graphics.
    Maybe they're stored as BAM's, but there are so many of those (all the weapon icons and creature animations etc.) that they're difficult to search.

    EDIT: Okay, I mass-exported all BAM files as PNGs so I can search through them in a file manager. They take up a whopping 32 GB in this extracted form, even though they tend to be small files, there's just so many of them... In any case, what I found:

    Cursors and map icons:
    • CURSORS.BAM has most of the mouse cursors used by the game, e.g.: [​IMG]
    • CURSARW.BAM has arrow cursors, e.g.: [​IMG]
    • MAPICONS.BAM has the icons for each major area shown on the world map, e.g. this one for Easthaven: [​IMG]
    • MAPBUT.BAM has buttons shown on the map screen like this one: [​IMG]
    • 25MAPIC.BAM has various other UI elements from the map screen, e.g.: [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
    ineth, Jun 1, 2016
    #238
  14. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Found them in the .bam files, thanks to Agent77 on Beamdog's forum.
     
    Allyx, Jun 1, 2016
    #239
  15. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    @Shiningted, I can load the maps up in near infinity and take screenshots of the maps with clipping data highlighted as shown above if it helps, which maps are needed first?
     
    Allyx, Jun 1, 2016
    #240
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