Multi-class character help

Nope. Ability gains are based on base value, not buffed value.

 

Baldur's Gate, for sure.
The key in Fallout(s) is to reduce your ability scores using pharmaceutical hangovers (lowering the ability score and thus total skill score) so that spending skill points was more efficient.

Speaking of multi-class Sorcerer, the Fighter/Sorcerer might seem like an awkward combo, but it's great for Solo adventuring (though challenging) and has role-playing flare out the wazoo.

 

The really easy way to play a sorc in TOEE is actually to make him a conjurer and learn Stinking Cloud and Cloudkill. Watch everything throw up and die.

 

I would generally not multi-class spellcasters, bcause with the way that works in 3.5, you are just foregoing the higher-level spells and this is not worth some BAB points and two or three feats.

What I find works well with some fighter levels are paladins and barbarians, because they are pretty front-loaded classes, so they lose little and can gain some feats that improve their melee. Also a fighter/rogue focused on melee can work, although he delays Crippling Strike and gets less sneak attack damage. But may still be worth it for the melee feats.

Another combo that can work well is paladin/cleric, even from a roleplaying viewpoint. Can be built as basically a weaker paladin with better spells and turning, or a slightly retarded, but melee-enhanced, cleric.

 

In general there are two ways to go about multi-classing in 3.5 D&D. You can either take similar levels of 2 or 3 classes to create some sort of hybrid (10 Rogue/10 Fighter = Brigand?) or you can do what is calling dipping. Dipping is taking only 1 or 2 levels from a class or two, and reaping some benefits while still retaining the majority of levels for your main class. Option 1 needs no explanation, option 2 however is an art style all by itself. In PnP D&D the possibilities are nearly endless, in ToEE you are a bit more limited due to fewer class choices, no prestige classes, splat books, etc...

The basic reasoning for taking a dip has already been mentioned by the above poster, in that many classes are front loaded and taking just 1 or 2 levels gets you a lot. In many cases it gets you more than having just took 2 more levels of your main class. Stat synergy is an important thing to consider when dipping, and this is part of what can net you a lot of extra abilities and such. I'll give a general breakdown of what to consider when dipping below.

Note this very important rule. Wands can be cast for free so long as you have at least 1 level of a class that has the spell on it's list. You don't even have to be high enough to actually cast it, it only has to appear as a spell on your class list. Scrolls works similarly, but you do have to have a high enough casting stat (ie; 15 int for a 5th level wizard spell, 17 wis for a 7th level cleric/druid spell, etc..) and make a fairly simple caster level DC roll. This is huge and it means a Cleric 1/Fighter 19 can cast any wand of a cleric spell for free(healing issues solved!). Same for wizzies, sorcs, etc.. but arcane spell failure is still an issue. Also remember that this goes for Paladins, Rangers and Bard wands and scrolls as well.

Fighter - Armor, shield, weapon proficiencies, D10 HD, bonus feats... and not much else. Generally most people will dip 2 or 4 levels of fighter and never look back. At the least you should always end a fighter dip on an even level due to the bonus feats. Fighters get absolutely no class abilities, their only claim to fame are feats which they get at level 1 and all even levels after. If you want more melee levels take something else that gives better saves or other benefits unless you absolutely need all those extra feats for your build. And remember, fighter bonus feats are limited, you can't take any random feat so 20 levels of fighter should give you more than you would ever actually need.

Barbarian - Armor, shield, weapon proficiencies, d12 HD. Rage and fast movement(10ft in medium armor or less) at level 1. Uncanny Dodge at level 2. Any more than that is beyond just a dip. Fast movement is huge(especially for small races who only have 20 naturally), rage is a nice bonus and uncanny dodge is better than any fighter bonus feat. Even if you want to make a "fighter" character, I'd implore you to take the first 2 levels of barb.

Monk - Good saves(all 3), bonus feats, evasion, etc... Monk can be a good dip for 1, maybe 2 levels. If you are an unarmed character then you will get wis to AC bonus, improved unarmed strike for free at first level. 2nd level gives you a 2nd bonus feat and evasion. Flurry is ok, but it's not so great if you don't take more monk levels as it's very restrictive in use. The best use for a monk dip is with a Druid character. Wis to AC is huge when wild shaping since you aren't in armor anyways and you will have high Wis due to synergy with your primary casting stat. In PnP D&D, unarmed strike is considered a natural attack, just like bear claws... so you can flurry and become a kung fu bear. I doubt this is implemented in ToEE, but it'd be fun if it was. Druid's get level 9 spells at level 17 which leaves 3 open levels. You could do 3 monk and also get still mind and fast movement, but I don't think it's worth it. Druid 17/Monk 1/Barb 2 or Monk 2/Barb 1 is a better choice.

Bard - Proficiencies, bard songs, skill points, small selection of spells, wand/scroll usage. Bard really isn't that great of a dip, though it's not horrible. Inspire courage is basically lifetime +1 during fights, but the paltry selection of spells and proficiencies doesn't add much. The scrolls and wands thing is good, but you'd be better off choosing an actual full caster for that. I think Bards are better to use for a main class while dipping into other classes. A bard with a level of Wizard/Cleric is really good for the wands and scrolls, though you're hurting your bab with this method. I'd say Cleric 1/Bard 19 would be a great build that could really do a lot.

Rogue - Profencies of course, 1d6 sneak attack, tons of skills and skill points, trapfinding(useless in ToEE), evasion at 2, 2d6 SA at 3. Rogue is an awesome dip for almost any class, though more useful with lightly/no armored classes as you take a hit to dex skills in heavier armors. Dipping Rogue is almost always done at level 1 due to the huge amount of skill points (8x int bonus!). Rogue is an awesome level to take before wizard due to the synergy of Int and skill points, not to mention the extra weapon proficiencies you get. Sneak attack isn't that useful for casters, but great for melee. Rogue/Barbs can be really good as can Rogue/Fighters. Take 4 points in a bunch of Rogue skills, and with enough dex/int and a few cross class points and you can probably pass most DC's the rest of the game.

Ranger - Armor, weapon, shield prof as usual, favored enemy, tracking, scroll/wand usage and at 2nd level a combat style. Which means at 2nd level you can have rapid shot or TWF for free, even without the prereqs. Ranger is almost always a 2 level dip unless you just want the tracking.

Paladin - Proficiencies, auras, divine grace, smite, etc... The absolute best use for a paladin dip is 2 levels in conjuction with a Bard or a Sorcerer. Why? Divine grace gives you CHA bonus to all saves, meaning that 16-18 CHA(+3/+4) bonus is now applied directly to saves for the other 18 levels of whatever class you play. Behold the power of the Sorcadin, or Bardadin?.... A cleric could even benefit from this if they had a high enough CHA to warrant it since the free martial weapon prof is a nice bonus.

Sorcerer - Uh.... A couple low level spells, a familiar and not much else. Sorcerers are probably the worst dip honestly. You are better served just playing a Sorc and dipping 2 Paladin than anything. You get spells 1 level later than wizard, so it takes 18 levels to get 9th level spells, leaving you only 2 to spare.

Druid - 1st level spells, animal companion, wand/scroll usage and a few naturesque abilities. Not a bad dip for a monk who already has high wis and wants a companion and a couple low level spells for convenience. It would take 3 levels to get 2nd level spells, so just take the 1 and get the wand/scroll usage for any spellcasting needs. You also have an animal buddy at will to at least take some aggro.

Wizard - 1st level spells, scribe scroll, familiar, wand/scroll usage. Almost anyone could benefit from Wizard 1, though armor users obviously have to take heed of the arcane spell failure. Scribe scroll is a nice bonus for any caster, so instead of just taking the feat you could still get some benefit from the wands and scrolls that are now available to you.

Cleric - The grand daddy of all dips is the Cleric. In PnP the options are vast, but even in ToEE you get a lot. A single level of cleric will net you; All simple weapons, all armors, shields, 2 domains(and the powers/spells that come with them), D8 hit die, 2 good saves, level 1 spells, turn undead, wand/scroll usage. Domain powers are huge here and they can really supplement the rest of your build. War domain alone gives you free martial prof and weapon focus of your deity's preffered weapon along with magic weapon as a free 1st level spell. Other domains have similar benefits, though not all work in ToEE. My personal favorite, that sadly doesn't work in ToEE, is the magic domain. It allows you to use wands and scrolls as a wizard 1/2 the level as your Cleric. Meaning as a cleric with this domain you have free lifetime use of all wizard scrolls and wands provided you meet the requirements (int, arcane failure, etc..). This is a great utility for any cleric completely free of charge, it's too bad ToEE didn't implement this correctly.

So as I said, dipping is like an art form and you can come up with some really strong combinations. Also note that race can play a huge roll in your choices. The right combination of race and class dips can give even a solo character a ridiculous amount of options. After just finishing a playthrough of 4 characters, I've decided I want to do a solo run with the most brokenly powerful character I can come up with to tackle all of the toughest new content from Co8. It's very munchkiny in some ways, but it's also very fun just to do the mind experiments and test out your theories.

 

I've tested it before. You can flurry, but you suffer a bug where your flurry attack is considered a third attack and is -10 to hit. I believe this is the same bug you get with flurry + dual wield, and it only happens when you use the full attack option.

 

I hope it didn't come off as a slight against the Co8 crew, I'm fully aware of the limitations of the ToEE engine and honestly wouldn't expect everything to be fixed. I was mostly pointing out the differences in how dipping works in PnP vs this game. There are a lot of things in PnP that are powerful but don't translate into the game, and vice versa. Charm person is way more powerful in this game than in PnP.

As far as the Kung Fu bear, I honestly wouldn't expect this to ever be implemented. It's extremely complicated, that is the entire natural attack, unarmed attack, flurry, etc... How it actually works is that "unarmed attack" does not mean "I hit with my fist". For a monk, his entire body is considered capable of doing unarmed attacks. Headbutts, kicks, etc... Not just for flavor, but a Monk theoretically can hold 2 weapons in his hands and still choose to do unarmed attacks with other parts of this body. This is by RAW.

From SRD "A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full."

It is this rule that makes it completely RAW, that a monk who has shapeshifted into a bear actually gets his full unarmed attack round from whatever his BAB is, AND he would still get his natural bear attacks afterwards(but obviously at some penalty). Meaning a level 1 Monk, level 5 Druid who wild shaped into a bear would have a BAB of +3. Even though he has taken the form of a bear, he is indeed still a monk and thus can use his entire body/form to perform his normal unarmed attacks. His full attack routine by the books is Unarmed/Claw/Claw/Bite, or with flurry Unarmed/Unarmed/Claw/Claw/Bite. That is because a creature's natural weapons don't count the same as a standard BAB calculated attack would. If race with a tail that was capable of a natural attack was a level 6 Fighter, on a full attack he would get his 2 attacks per BAB, AND his tail attack every round.

Natural weapons mixed with standard attacks is complicated as there are primary and secondary natural attacks, etc.. and I would see no real way of implementing it correctly in the game. Druids are extremely powerful in core rules due to the way attacks work while wildshaped, though they are quite a bit nerfed in this game. However a Druid is still a full 9th level spellcaster and plenty strong in their own right.

What would be nice however, and its not a "core" item is a wildling clasp. It is an item that can be placed onto a necklace or what not, and allows the item to remain after a Druid wildshapes. Meaning a Druid could use a wildling claps on an amulet of mighty fists and get their bonus to attack at all times.

As far as the Magic domain goes, I don't think it'd be worth the trouble to fix it. Taking a single level of Wizard/Sorc will do the same thing so a Cleric 19/Wiz 1 is actually probably more powerful than a Cleric 20 anyways. That last level of Cleric won't give you enough to compensate for the amount of usefulness that 1 level of wizard gives. The only thing is it would slow down your Cleric progression by a level.

 

I believe the proper terms are Porcerer and Paladard (or sometime just "Pard" if used familiarly) Wow, great overview. Makes me want to fire up a new game just to try some ideas!

Although it is more than a dip, taking 6-8 levels of Bard can get you Fascinate song that is really hard to resist. With maxed-out Perform skill, Cloak of Charisma, Circlet of Persuasion and a Mandolin of Charming it seems to always work in ToEE except vs Zuggtmoy or Iuz. I'm not sure how much the Bard level affects the save roll vs Fascinate, so maybe you get the same effect with only 1 level of Bard if you then subsequently add cross-class skill points to perform skill.

 

Paladin/Bard is (unfortunately) impossible in ToEE. Bards cannot be Lawful, Paladins can only be Lawful Good. There's no way to change your alignment once your character is created except through console commands.

 

Downsides of multiclassing in ToEE (as opposed to PnP D&D where access to prestige classes lets you synergise more):
With pretty much all classes, if you are nth level, advancing to level n+1 probably gets you more of what you are after than adding a first level of another class. If you are a caster, you're delaying your next spell level (which are the major source of your power), if you are a rogue you're putting off your next Sneak attack d6, and so on. Low level spells aren't much use to a highish level fighter or rogue (particularly if you have higher level caster friends who have many more low level spells and often don't use them all up in a day.
Exceptions:
fighter-types (including rangers and barbarians) who have amassed enough BAB and other to-hit bonuses, and hit points, can benefit from adding a level or 3 of rogue to gain sneak attack damage.
A single caster level gives perfect wand use with all spells in the spell list. The ability to use a 10th level wand of fireballs or cure critical wounds or spike stones or improved invisibility may be worth dropping a point of BAB or delaying sneak attack for (nb: you need wandcrafters to make the most of this). It's better than giving casters quicken spell for those occasions you want tocast twice in a round.
Barbarian doesn't gain any new abilities as such after level 10. Might as well switch to fighter for feats, or rogue for sneak attack.
If you're after BAB, full BAB classes give you that at any level.