Are Crossbows Better Than Bows?

It's probably something that's been thought about before, whether it be a personal thought or an active discussion; which ranged archery weapon is better? I know it's silly to interpret the usefulness of one weapon over the other, seeing as enough time put into a character can make him or her amazing with either, but which one truly puts the hurt on the enemy?

Now, it's common knowledge that bows can be "reloaded" as a free action, and thus can be fired multiple times in a round according to your base attack bonus. This is a plus to many characters, rangers or not (but rangers especially considering they can specialize in archery), because this means that one less feat has to be taken to maximize their damage, meaning they can put some effort into another feat without worry of making their character loose damage. This provides a slight advantage over light crossbows that need the Rapid Reload feat in order to work relatively the same way as bows.

Heavy crossbows, to my knowledge, also benefit from Rapid Reload, but it's a move action, meaning that you will only ever be ready for your next shot. This makes the heavy crossbow less effective for rangers, given that it takes time to reload, and I doubt any ranger wants to be running all over the battlefield to then reload his weapon as a move action, and then shoot, repeating his actions with the next two rounds, just as the last two.

However, if we move onto the repeating crossbows, it opens up a lot of possibilities.

Although requiring the exotic weapon feat to use effectively, repeating crossbows can keep up with bows (to my knowledge). They have five bolts in a clip, and are able to use Rapid Shot at the beginning of the game due to the specialty of the weapon. They benefit from Rapid Reload and other feats just as bows.

But how much damage do you do? To my knowledge, there has yet to be a heavy repeating crossbow added to the game (correct me if I'm wrong please), so the 1d10 normality of heavy crossbows is nullified since we've already established that heavy crossbows are outmatched in most situations, but there is light repeating crossbows, and some magical ones.

On a basic plane, let's break down the ability of a light repeating crossbow and a longbow, both magical +1. Since both are magical +1, both get a +1 to hit and to damage. Both do 1d8, and both have the capability of shooting multiple shots in a round. And, let's be honest here, range hardly matters considering most enemies will run at you anyway.

But let's assume that we were able to find a heavy repeating crossbow, and that it had a 5 round magazine, and that it is magical +1. This means that we get 1d10, +1 to hit and to damage, and can be reloaded as a move action, meaning you'll always be ready to attack every round.

Using the feats Martial Weapon Proficiency ([long or short]Bow), Weapon Focus ([long or short]Bow), Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Point Blank Shot (assuming we're 30 feet away or less), and Precise Shot, we can infer that a bow can, at this basis, a magical bow gets 3 attacks per round with a +1 to hit and to damage since the +1 and the feats negate the negativity to hit and add +1 to hit in the end, making a short or long bow effective, and making a longbow's 1d8 nothing to scoff at. A ranger can be truly deadly with a magical long bow and the right feats.

Sadly, the light repeating crossbow will work in just the same way.

But if we were to bring in a heavy repeating crossbow, we now have to look at that 1d10 damage, which can really put out more damage than a longbow at it's max, ultimately making the heavy repeating crossbow more powerful if the ranger uses the feats Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Repeating Crossbow), Weapon Focus (Repeating Crossbow), Rapid Shot (already added to the crossbow), Many Shot, Point Blank Shot (assuming we're 30 feet away or less), and Precise Shot. If the heavy repeating crossbow is magical, it now gets the same feats as the longbow, but adds the 1d10, meaning more maximum damage in the long run.

But what about criticals? The crits make all the difference! Now, naturally, bows get x3 to their damage on a critical, but you must roll a 20. This means that on a natural 20 roll, you will do three times the damage you would normally do, making all the difference in a fight.

Crossbows also have a bit of a specialty themselves. Although you only get x2 on a critical hit, you can score it on a 19-20, meaning you get criticals slightly more often.

So in the end, not including base attack bonuses, longbows, which outclass shortbows, will do 1d8 20x3; which means you'll do 24 damage with each shot if all rolls are perfect. When using a heavy repeating crossbow, which outclasses a light repeating in many ways, you'll do 1d10 19-20x2; meaning a perfect round for your ranger will have you doing 20 damage a shot. However, if we bring probability into it, you will do critical hits more often with the heavy repeating crossbow.

But when we break it all down, it all depends on which you more prefer, because each have capabilities that make them more useful than the other at times.

What can you guys add to this? Was it helpful? Do you have any opposing ideas?

 

I am going to say the LONG BOW because of the ability to use the feats
MANY SHOT, and RAPID SHOT

many shot lets you shoot 2 or more arrows at the same time,
NOT possible with a crossbow

many shot should not be possible with the crossbow
THE RULES FOR THIS FEAT SPEAK ONLY ABOUT ARROWS AND NOT
BOLTS.

THE CROSSBOW ONLY HOLDS 1 BOLT AT A TIME MECHANICALLY


THE BOWMAN USES HIS HANDS AND FIST AND FINGERS TO HOLD UP TO A MAXIMUM OF 4 ARROW'S ON A BOWS TAUGHT BOWSTRING

with composite bows you can add STR to damage

if you have a rogue with the RAPID SHOT AND MANY SHOT feat, look out FOES
you can shoot a VOLLEY of sneak attacks and damage

dont forget that these weapons critical can be improved
FEAT: WEAPON SPECIALIZE
FEAT: IMPROVED CRITCAL
CRAFT: KEEN

I think best possible crit for Long BOW: 16-20 x 3


that being said
assuming all attacks hit
say you get a crit with 1 of the attacks with Long bow with a ROGUE level 10
many shot, rapid shot
2 arrows per attack, +1 extra attack
sneak: 4d6 crit: d8 x 3

without any magic damage added no str for composite either

best min/max : 12 damage min / 88 damage max
regular damage: 6 arrows fired (6-48 damage) + (4-24 sneak damage)
crit damage : 6 arrows fired (3-24+ 5-40 ) + (4-24 sneak damage)

assume all 3 attacks get a Critical hit
best min/max: 16 min / 120 max

this could be increased even further by crafting the LONG BOW
with D6 FIRE AND D6 ICE DAMAGE

believe me the damage could go into well over 100 points of damage
most of this is a rough estimate

 

Bows are superior. There's no question about it. Specially when you consider the use of feats to use repeating crossbows.

The only char in the game that makes it worthwhile to use a repeating crossbow is wonnilon who is actually a very good NPC that already comes with the feats to use this type of weapon.


But I tend to play chars more for fun than for power, so I like to use a crossbow now and then depending on my char.

 

You're right, I got many things wrong here.

 

I was not really trying to point out any wrongs there,

Only that in my opinion is the LONG BOW more superior then the Crossbow
in the right hands.


if you dont have any feats for the LONG BOW then I would suggest that the heavy cross bow is a more affective range weapon per damage.

a plus for the repeating CROSSBOW is it takes less feats to learn to be affective with it.

EITHER WEAPON can be very good for ranged attacks and damage.

its an interesting question to pose,
it really depends on what type of party you intend to use.

what weapon you choose really depends on the members skills, feats, and
balance.

you cant have a Range weapon user if you dont have people supporting them
for the oppurtunity to use the Range weapon.

you can't really have a person using a BOW backed into a Corner all alone any way
to have any good effect.

 

I take crossbow only because they're the main weapon of choice for my wizards and sorcerers. My only truly dedicated archer type is a rogue with Precise Shot and Point Blank Shot to start with- add Crippling Shot at 10th level and I'm all set- but this just the way I play the game...

 

Agreeing that Longbow is a superior weapon I have to say that I choose other ranged weapons for RPing reasons, i.e. Xbow for Wizard, Sling for Druid, Shuriken for Monk etc...
On a side note, Sling is better than all others against undead!!

 

Rapid shot should not be combinable with manyshot. Rapid shot requires a full-attack action and manyshot requires a standard action. Does this game allow you to manyshot as part of a full-attack action? I don't think it does.

Weapon specialize should not improve criticals in any way
Improved critical should not be combinable with keen. Does this game allow you to combine those? I've never tried.

 

Best Ranged Weapons in game:

1. Sling (w/ 30 Str Barbarian): d4+10 (+12 while raging) [note: something like trident might be better except the huge hassle of reloading; now, if you could make a trident undroppable like Furnok's dagger - then that would be a contender for the top spot].
2. Composite Longbow 18 Str (w/18+ Str character) + Greater Bracers of Archery: d8+5 (+2 to-hit advantage over sling and x-bow)
3. Iolo's Joy: d8+d6 sonic [18-20 crit range, 15-20 when keen]

All of these could obviously be crafted to be even better. I recommend +3 holy for all (unless your archer is evil), and burst abilities for Iolo's Joy.

 

I was about to say no, but I decided to test it and it actually does work. I gave a fighter a keen greatsword and the improved critical feat, and he scored a critical hit on a 16. I took it even further and cast "keen edge" on the already keen +1 greatsword and he scored a critical hit on a 14. I didn't bother rolling until I got a 13, but I'm assuming the threat range is 13-20. If you start with a 18-20 weapon I guess the threat range will be 9-20. :scratchhe

Edit: Heh, guess it works. I scored a crit on a 10 (I tried to get a 9, but I got bored.)

 

Hmmm... so it looks to be worthwhile to take Improved Critical: Hand Axe after all...

 

What I meant about WEAPON SPECIALIZE is that

IT does in fact improve the outcome of the critical hit damage by adding a +2 to damage per dice rolled via FEAT, this stacks with other bonuses like magic and STR excetra.


and YES IMPOVED CRITICAL stacks with KEEN because they are not the same
type - One is FEAT other is MAGIC

like natural armor stacks with armor
keen stacks with improved critical

 

Use Elf for your wiz. Get free Longbow feat.

 

Okay. But according to actual D&D rules, effects that improve a critical range never stack. For instance, this is from the SRD on the Improved Critical Feat: "This effect doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon."

So, the feat is supposed to be useless with a keen weapon, but it's good to know that it's not. Apparently Iolo's Joy can have a critical range of 9-20? (unless each effect doubles the modified range, in which case the critical range would be -3 to 20).

Also, as per D&D rules, "Feat" and "Magic" are not bonus types. The FEAT Augment summoning grants an enhancement bonus to Strength and therefore is not supposed to stack with bull's strength (magic), because bull's strength also grants an enhancement bonus to strength. But who knows how this computer game handles that . . .

 

The two feats I usually take as a wizard or sorcerer are Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration, followed by Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (school X) and Greater Spell Focus (School X)- and since it's only humans that start with 2 feats that's a no to elves- but as druids, however, that's a yes...