Help a newbie

Greetings!

I played this game perhaps 6, 7 years ago. I didn't think much of it then. But recently, it was on sale on GOG, so I decided to try it again. Needless to say, glad I have. I love it.

I have played The BG series to death. I am a veteran of such games. But this one, with its 3.5 rules wasn't as easy to master. Some basic things they could have done was add descriptions for items. For example, I have a potion of bull's strength. I don't know what this potion does, however, as there is no description. I don't know what it sets your strength to, if it has any negative effects, nor the duration.

Same thing with spells. Mage armor. How long does it last, etc? BG had a wonderful system that perfectly explained everything. TOEE doesn't. And for a game with so many functions, you really think it should.

The combat system is fun as hell. I love turn based. It is superior to real time. But, there isn't a solid strategy with it. In fact, combat is the main reason I came on to this forum (aside from a few quest question.)

If anyone can offer me general combat advice, please do so. I noticed for example, there is a trip function. On what does this depend? Dex? Enemy AC? Where are my to-hit-rolls? (the transcript only reports whether it is a hit/miss/success/failure, not the rolls that take place.)

Ranged weaponry seems pathetically weak. It misses constantly. And so on. So combat tactics would be very much appreciated if a veteran could shed some advice.

And what about crafting? How do you craft? Is it worth it?

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to respond!

 

I believe the potion of Bull's Strength adds +4 to the present strength for a short time.

Cat's Grace is +4 to dexterity.

Bear's Endurance - constitution.

Fox's Cunning - intelligence.

Owl's Wisdom - wisdom.

Eagle's Splendor - charisma.

These are also arcane and divine spells, as well as potions.

 

Holding down the shift key while the cursor is over an item while it is in your backpack will give you some basic info on it. The in game help section is accessed by clicking on the ? at the bottom right of the screen. The same goes for your combat rolls- click on one of the 2 small icons above the other icons at the bottom right of the screen- it will not only show you what happens during combat but clicking on the blue highlighted text will give an exact breakdown of what happened and why.

As for missile combat, make sure you have Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot as feats, otherwise missile attacks are mainly a matter of luck. Also, try to get at least masterwork missile weapons (you need masterwork items in order to craft magical items, unless the item is already enchanted to some degree). Crafting can be done as soon as you reach the needed levels and have the needed spells- can't make Gloves of Dexterity w/o knowing Cat's Grace for example. As far as is it worth it that depends on you- unless you have more than one magic type crafting items (and it's highly suggested to have at least 2- I usually go with a cleric and wizard, and a druid if I'm playing a neutral alignment), expect the progress of your crafting folks to lack behind everyone else. There's a very good thread dedicated to crafting here- just use the search function and you should find it. Most any crafted item will be far stronger than most similar items found in the game (treasure items seem to max out at +4, although there may be exceptions).

 

For ranged weapons, you'll want the Precise Shot feat (to avoid the -4 for firing in to melee) and try to achieve direct line of sight to your targets (to avoid them having cover, which gives them +4 AC). Also, you'll want to buy an appropriate composite bow to apply your strength to damage rolls.

Crafting is totally worth the effort. The first thing you'll want to make is a Helm of Reading Magic. You'll never have to cast a spell (Read Magic) to identify a scroll or potion again. Also, crafting magic weapons lets you use whatever weapon you like (vice what you can find in the game), to include those excellent composite bows. Crafting requires feats that are mostly self explanatory (Craft Wondrous Items for the Helm above, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, etc.).

 

I'm new to the game as well (came from the GOG sale), but will gladly contribute what I can.

I, too, have found that ranged weapons are basically crap, which I wish I'd known before I set my ranger up as a ranged-weapon oriented ranger... Even when enemies are prone, it seems like you can't hit them worth a damn.


Anyway, other tips...well, don't forget to use "Ready vs. approach" or "ready vs. spell," etc. Those can help to interrupt combat and give your guys a chance to fight back. The interface can be a bit opaque for certain things. For example, I only recently figured out that "Guidance" isn't exactly a "passive boost" spell. You have to choose what it'll boost (saving throw, combat roll, or skill check) and I gather it expires as soon as you use it for that. I'm finding most of the cantrips to be only mildly useful in that regard.

Be REALLY CAREFUL about the paths your guys will take to get near an enemy. Want to do a sneak attack with your rogue? Make sure you send them on a path that won't provoke an attack of opportunity (AoO). The manual should explain how to set waypoints, which will help there.

Also, be careful about bringing your healers in too close, depending on the enemy you're fighting. For example, when fighting a hill giant, recognize that the giant has about double the reach of a normal enemy. Which means your melee PC who's engaged the giant and needs healing may be so close that your cleric will ALSO get in range such that casting a touch-based healing spell will provoke an AoO.

For wizards, watch out for area-effect spells that you cast. The visual area that's covered by the game often doesn't actually show exactly how far the spell extends. So, an enemy who's been tripped by a grease spell may be lying prone just far enough into the spell area that your fighter on the edge can't attack them without also running the risk of tripping. And fireball? That's an alpha strike spell, as far as I can tell. The radius extends beyond the blue border of the spell bubble when you cast it. So be careful when casting that against an enemy that's engaged in melee with one of your guys.



That's about all I can think of. I "bonded" with 1e playing Pool of Radiance back in the day, so even though I played Baldur's Gate I and II, I find a lot of the 3.5e stuff confusing. Still, the game's definitely worth learning, now that Co8 has fixed it up.

 

Get a 3.5 players handbook. They are free to read online, and the help tab in the game is excellent, but I frequently flip through my hardcopy. Plan your character's feats right up to level 20, before rolling them. Don't forget fighters and wizards and others have bonus feats. Otherwise you'll end up having a crippled high level character. Many, many builds are viable, or at least fun, but they do take planning.

 

Just to check, have you guys been giving Point Blank Attack and Precise shot to your archer types?

Seriously, those two (actually just the second, but the first is required), are HUGE. Normally, any target in "melee" (i.e. in range of someone to attack them as far as the game is concerned), gives a -4 penalty to attack to any ranged attacks. At no point in the game is -4 a small penalty, and at early levels ranged attacks are, for all intents and purposes, useless against such a foe... except for when you have Precise Shot, which negates it. It isn't even a strong recommendation; it is a -requirement- to having good results with ranged weaponry.

Its kind of sad the game isn't loud and clear about that one. Its night and day. Trust me, if you use it and use that character, suddenly ranged weaponry works, and is actually quite useful. Also, remember that for the most part Dex adds to your attack bonus, not Str, for ranged attacks (except for slings, and maybe other thrown weapons?) Also, it is an attack, so best results tend to go towards fighter types.

Also, do check up one the forums or other sites from time to time even after getting any chance to become familiar with 3.5 rules (and they are a tough start, to be sure.) The game has so many bugs, hitches, voluntary differences, and uncommon interpretations of rules that it can make some things that work on PnP not near as stellar, or vice versa.

 

I think I gave my archer "rapid shot" instead. I suppose I could always edit feats and stuff via console (that's possible, right?).

 

Rapid shot actually adds another negative to hit with your ranged attack.

I believe rapid shot gives you one extra attack but all attacks suffer a -1 penalty to hit.

Oh, and a prone character gains an automatic +4 to their defense against ranged attacks.

 

This has all being quite helpful, especially the waypoints thing. How many times I have clicked to attack only for my character to not go where I wanted them to and induce an AOPS against them. It's so irritating.

But where are all the attack rolls? The THACO, or BAB or whatever it is called?

 

Woah wait, what? Really? Prone characters get a BONUS to ac against ranged attacks? That seems really cheesy... dude is at best rolling around desperately seeking to return to the ground. Should be an easier target if anything. Oh well.

And last I checked, its actually -2 on all attacks for rapid! Yeah, kind of actually a really bad idea to start with it. I'd say around... oh... level 4-5 is when you're archer, if a fighter type, can use it if the foe is a weaker, easier to hit type.

 

I don't actually use rapid shot. I was getting it more to have an archer who could be more mobile. Figured I'd build them up that way. Now I'm wishing I took precise shot instead.

As for the prone thing, if that's the case, then what the hell is the point of things like grease and other similar spells? I can't shoot them while they're down, I can't send my melee guys in to whack at 'em because they'll slip, too. Best I can hope for is to push my melee guys right up next to 'em, then cast grease so that the very edge touches the enemy but my fighters are beyond it, and then MAYBE I'll get one (1) free attack. Only other use I can see for it is to delay an enemy's approach by 1-2 turns at most. That's useful to some degree, but especially as I get higher in level, I'd rather cast magic missile (since my wizard can't do ranged damage effectively, thanks to the -4 penalty from firing into melee or over the heads of anyone standing in front).

 

As far as the missile combat goes: I tend to use humans for most of my parties as the extra feat comes in handy. I'll make a human rogue with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot at creation, then look to buy the best masterwork short bow I can. After that I enchant it thru crafting and soon, I have a very lethal long range killer on hand. I've had high level rogues take down ettins in a single round once they got Crippling Strike, and as been mentioned, fighters- especially if they get long bow as a weapon specialization- will wreck havoc on their foes (but make sure they pick up Quickdraw as well so that they can switch back to melee). Wizards and sorcerers can make decent archers once they enchant their crossbows- it'll never replace their spells, but it beats trying to melee a bad guy- and heck, if you've got all the magical feats you want for them, Point Blank Shot will help as well...

 

I could still point out uses for Grease, but admittedly for this game, its particular brand of CC isn't as useful since most mobs big enough to want to break apart... actually will usually be a big mob of wimps. And this game rewards whirlwind greater cleaving 5 steps way too much to risk your melee guy in the process.

Or course, there are rings of freedom of movement for that. Still though, there are less risky spells, such as glitterdust, for good group crowd control. And if it is for an individual... well, that can be quite useful, especially since one of Grease's big points is that enemy balance checks are throughout the board crappy, but again: the fact it has rather severe issues with actually measuring its range correctly can make it backfire way too easily.

For casters... wands. Even wands of magic missile are dirt cheap, and I see them as a guaranteed ranged attack. Best part? The game is screwy and lets you sell them, for more than their original gold cost, the same amount even if it only has 1 charge left. A bit of tracking to to there, but awesome (although also only somewhat fair, given its only 20 charges instead of the PnP 50...)

And yeah, this game is a fantastic way of visualising why human is such a good race for almost any optimization. An extra feat, and at level 1 to boot, does wonders. I frankly can't justify a non-fighter archer not being human because of getting precise shot from the gate.

 

I use mostly elves in my party. Everyone who isn't a rogue or barbarian starts as a fighter, so they all have precise shot to begin with. The rogue gets it at second level by taking a level of fighter, and the barbarian is the token melee fighter. Mixing rogue and fighter results in an awesome amount of damage at high levels (by level 20, it's 5 attacks (rapid shot) with +6d6 to each one from sneak attack for the first round (or more if the targets can be denied their DEX bonuses). And of course that's on top of the bonuses from stength, weapon specialization and (most imporatantly) crafting.