That’s the problem

That is quite common policy, which being calling a historical figure with his/hers contemporary/local name. Of course we all follow the ways we are most familiar with or which we have consciously chosen. I just didn’t know how the Turks called Atatürk. There are not many Turks in Finland and those who have migrated from Turkey to Finland are mainly Kurds, who in turn seem harbor not so nice thoughts about the Turks.

Btw. If English speakers find Finnish difficult, that goes both ways. We have actually translated most foreign names to fit the Finnish language. The ancient Creek is called “Hellas” and the modern one is “Kreikka”, the ancient Rome is called “Rooma” and the contemporary “Italia”. Sweden is called “Ruotsi” and Russia is “Venäjä”, Denmark is “Tanska” and so on.

I am inclined to think it was both. Or do you have some evidence stating that the landowning relations and financial oppression of the Greeks played no part in this event? Or can the leftists (who usually live on imaginary world and not in ours) show some conclusive evidence that religious and/or ethnic factors had nothing to do with the event?

Firstly: oh no, you just didn’t say that. Sabbaton is a Swedish band, not a Finnish one. You just showed your ignorance and likened Finns with the Swedes. In the olden days that would earn you a blood feud that will last generations, since that is a double insult. Finns hate only two things more than they hate the Russians, and those are the Swedes and mixing up us with either of the former. I truly hope that you did not do that on purpose.

Secondly: Before the Dawn? I must be getting really old, because there seem to be a Finnish metal band that I haven’t heard before. Shame on me. Although, in my defense, Finland has the largest number of metal bands per capita. Still, that sounds great, must learn more.

Thank you for the musical experience! Always happy to learn about unknown/new (to me) bands. Marauder sounded perhaps a bit too power metal for my liking. Yet the vocalist was great, somewhat overdramatic perhaps, but that comes with territory when speacin about power metal

Sarissa… That has something to do with the military? A formation or a weapon perhaps? Ah, I should know this. Anyways, far more my type of music, alas the sounds/the mixing just sucks. Still I great song.

Athlos. I am speechless. This is my kind of music, almost, I just don’t get the flute. That must be a southern thing, still, definitely the best one out of these three. Eluveitie has the same thing. Always stinging in my ear unless played on some Irish folk tune (yes the IRA corrupted me). Here almost all the traditional instruments are string instruments, excluding drums and the accordion. Perhaps you wish to hear some of my favorites? These are with subtitles:
Amorphis’s version of the first song of Kalevala:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__G5GLfYdDM
It may sound quite modern, but both the lyrics and the melody are as old as the north, here is the Finnish version by Viikate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHLFj3WzlDg
And here is the first song of Kanteletar, (there are two versions by Amorphis, the second is an acoustic version so you can hear it as it was played centuries ago), and the second is by Sentenced, both of these are sung in English. I guess neither are actually that good songs, but they hold rather great significance to me: after two weeks of medical coma in ICU in 1996 when I had recovered enough from meningitis to be transferred into a common unit (where I spent another month) the first thing I can remember was asking my older brother to bring me something to cheer me up. He gave me his brand new Sony Discman and two albums: Elegy and Amok. Here are the best songs of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKfeTutinFM (and the acoustic version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hld-g6DTf4Y )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1HJPw6K41Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5xEd2dCIMw

The North has seldom enjoyed peace. End of the Second World Blaze brought the longest peace we have ever seen before. We never benefitted from either pax romana nor pax Britannica. Thank you too, I am always happy to learn more and teach others, if I can that is.

Yes, they did. And they were the only ones willing to help us. They were not merely asked to help us. We conspired with them before the onslaught of operation Barbarossa. We wished to take back all the territories the soviets stole from us during the winter war and some more. “Veri verta vaatii” Blood cries for blood, which is the nature of blood feud.

That is a matter of opinion. I do not deny that others suffered greatly from the actions of the glorious Reich. My point was purely selfish: we did not suffer but we benefitted from the actions of the Reich. Even more, we owe our independency to the Reich. When the first Great Blaze begun we were a part of imperial Russia, some of us (including my great uncle) went to Germany to get military training. They later became to be known as the 27th Jäger Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27th_Jäger_Battalion_(Finland)) who helped to gain Finnish independency. The soviets tried to occupy us on 30 November 1939 we held our ground for 100 and 5 days when we were forced to give up our second largest city, one fifth of our land, and relocate 400 000 citizens who chose not to become soviet citizens. At that time, there were only some 3 150 000 Finns at total. We have no fond memories about the soviets as you do not have with the Ottomans. In your case the help came from the Ententte, in our case it was the Reich.

I guess they were not, nor were they any different than Finnish or American (where they gathered all US residents with Japanese heritage) camps. The only mentionable difference is that the Finnish, German, Japanese and Soviet concentration camps are things of the past as the US concentration camp at Guantamo Bay (Gitmo) is still functioning and who knows about the Israeli “detention centers”? And of course, Finns were willing allies of the Nazis, which made us quite untouchable. Only eight Jews were ever deported from Finland to the camps, even as our Jewish population was counted in hundreds. Not a thing that any other German occupied country can say, not to say “willing ally”.

But what I know for sure is that should Stalin succeeded occupying Finland he would have “cleansed” my family. My great uncle serving in the 27th, my grandmother being a Lotta Svärd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotta_Svärd) my grand dad being Civil Guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Guard_(Finland)). For Stalin those were hideous things, for Hitler they were the contrary.

But these dark thoughts have brought us back to the original topic. I will not be assigned for any other duty before I have finished my duty for my house. Last Tuesday 26th of February I drove 500 km to meet my grandfather, for the last time I guess. Over ninety years of age and now they give us days, maybe weeks because of metastasized lung cancer. The next time I will wear my uniform is when I carry my Pappa to the grave. He is a war hero, he survived the Second Great war which took the lives of both his brothers as the first took his uncles. This one is for you Pappa, the song of Kauhava your birthplace:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2PCgEGypHw:

This one is for you and your brothers, for all those who have passed in to the shadows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAvi9S4yNhg

Forgive me but “ stormfront” is an neo-Nazi’s forum, it is hardly a propaganda free source of information.

It is. For you, and so many others the Nazis were the incarnation of evil, although nothing you hadn’t seen before like the Ottomans, but for some they were also life givers.

That is the difference between south and north. The art, the culture, as inanimate as it is will be, will outlive both of us. It is the epitome of us. The Northmen say: men will come and go (be born and die?) but our houses will stand the test of time. Our flesh is only something that is passing by. Countless generations have been born, butchered to death or cuddled to safety before us… That is the historical “humanity”. The Northmen say: violent like the wolf because the wolf never kills its own, only humans does that. For the rest of your points, I will answer later. Forgive me. I must mourn and it is hard to concentrate. I hope you can understand.

 

You hope it's not offensive?

How could anyone actually believe that there was no intent to offend when you show a picture with nothing but slanderous statements in regards to the USA?

Yes, I find it offensive.

I have mostly stayed out of you guys intellectual debate, but I am an American and this is a forum in America.

I shed my blood for this country and find it rather frustrating when people take the garbage put out by the main stream media and use that to base their opinion of America on.

Countless times you guys have quoted good sources of research and yet you fall back to taking the sheep's way of ingesting whatever is easiest to read about America.

In short, America is not evil, lazy or stupid.

I'll stop here before Gaear has to sensor me.

I am truly disappointed, saddened and angered.

 

If you are talking about the map I'd say it's more offensive to the Finns than the Americans as it portrays them (the Finns) as racists at best.

Also as you travel the world you will find it is usually American foreign policy rather than Americans which is resented.

Not quite sure about my grammer on the last sentence.

I used to play ice hockey with a few Finn's in London, they didn't seem to reflect the veiws expressed here by Rocktoy tending to be more liberal.

Rocktoy I'm sorry about your Grandfather you have my condolences.

 

Is all this huffing and and puffing about that MAP? Yes it does make the Finns seem petty and narrow-minded but it seems like it's intent was to be humorous and self-deprecating. You see maps like this representing the U.S. or Texas in a similar vein regularly. I find them mildly offensive, but that's what makes them funny.

As far as the disrespectful viewpoints of some of the foreign participants in the forum towards the United States, it seems like it makes the source look opinionated and ignorant more than anything else. Once I know someone routinely expresses themselves in a juvenile fasion, I just skim past anything they post. I doubt I'm missing anything.

I think the forum rules are applied fairly evenly. I can remember only one time I was disappointed at someone being banned (at least twice), but she was definitely violating the forum rules. I would lose interest if dissent wasn't allowed.

 

My apologies to sirchet for the map. I honestly was not thinking about the depiction of the US on the map, I was concentrating on the opinion of the Finns. I really cannot think of any excuse to defend myself.

It was, as Guardian Angel said, meant to be a comment/question on the general opinion in Finland, which actually shocked me.
But that does not justify my attitude, and it certainly does not justify my (even unwitting) offense toward sirchet, a person who has been nothing but kind and polite to me.


I would also like to express my condolences to Rocktoy.

 

Nicely put, Jo!

The majority of the countries that disrespect the United States are also countries that don't step up and take their share of the world's problems. Their opinion simply doesn't matter. You got to pay to play.

I've noticed that other countries are starting to help in the world's crises. I'm going to fail to be condescending and critical when they too get their ***'s caught in the grinder. Screwing up is bad, but doing nothing is worse.

I hope they remember the sacrifices of the people that they sent to the job.

 

"Canada on the other hand ... now there is an Evil Empire! "

Oh no our secret is out time to unleash the deathstar.

 

Some points/thoghts regarding this thread:
There seems to be a deal of bashing, hopefully unintentional, that is going on here. Personally, I still feel very bad about what happened a couple of days ago with the map. Also, some of what I read here (specifically here)

sounded rather cruel, although I am starting to get used to such comments.
I also believe that it was unfair to the US, to compare Guadanamo with German concentration camps.

I would like to recommend that this thread be closed. This is a community that includes people from many different nationalities, and therefore it's very easy to offend others.
Sorry about whinning here, but this incident with the map was like a kick in the gut for me.

 

I thought that was a question pointed towards the Finnish people, the ones supposedly behind that map and not to YOU. I wasn’t offended, even as that map painted rather racist and caricaturized picture of FINNISH people and not of the *** citizens of the rebel colonies.

And here I was thinking you were a citizen of the USA? Quite noble of you of you for having bled for the citizens of Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay and many more…

First of all, I have no idea what “sheep’s way” means. Secondly, I have stated quite frequently that I respect and personally like the US way of life. But since I am an avid believer of human rights and scholarship so I retain my right to say my opinion when I can found it on justifiable facts.

I never said that nor implied that. Nevertheless, I got most the “slandering” arguments about, not America but, of US of A excluding “Phil” or was it “Fil” cannot say for sure because of the censorship. Oh it was “Phil” thanks for the “Naurunappula” and rest of the free Interwebs. Anyway, what is insulting on the word “Phil”? I really do not know.

Do not worry: you’re “Murican”, Gaear won’t censor you.

Don’t be. The insult was not aimed on you, but on me.

Exactly.

That is most likely true. The conjoined history of Finland and (Nazi) Germany still remains as taboo topic. Most Finns are not comfortable to talk about it, or admitting it. They rather stay silent, especially those who are abroad; unfortunately that does not make it any less true.

Thank you. He passed in the shadows 2 pm (UTC+2) March 6th. So I was told. No family members (excluding his spouse who was also a patient) were allowed in the hospital. The hospital of Kauhava was quarantined due a norovirus epidemic. The funeral will take place on some time in unknown future. It may take weeks or months. First they must conduct the post mortem to clarify the cause of death and that may take awhile. Then will follow the funeral arrangements, as he is given full military funeral, setting the date and church up too takes time. In the meanwhile I am clueless. What should I do? Should I start ringing thru the members of my house to tell them my condolences, or should I wait for their rings, as I am a mourner? I do not know. Pappa is the first member of my immediate family who has died on my watch. It was so much different when I attended to funerals of my friends. All that I have managed to do now was to take my uniform to the drycleaners so it will be clean and properly pressed for the occasion.

Truly so. Couldn’t put it to words better myself.

What?!? You lost me here, should I have understood this?

Racist! Kanada?!? What have those cuddly bear and tree huggers ever done to anyone? … Actually, theirs and Australians policy towards their indigenous peoples have been almost, and time to time, even more horrid than the US policy, with the sterilizations of the native women and forcefully relocating native children to “pure” kanadian families up to the seventies. Well, I am biased to blame them since the Northmen (Finns, Swedes and the Norse, not to mentions the Ruskies) still haven’t ratified all (or any) of the contracts that would give definite land rights to Europe’s (last and) only indigenous people: the Sami.

But I can see your point here. As Kanada is a member of the evil British commonwealth, it too is a member of the empire that still forbids the emerald isle of na hÉireann to reunite. Thank you for your support.

You should not be apologetic, it is not your fault, nor could you have anticipated that “sum Murican” gets offended when you insult Finns. “Se koira älähtää johon kalikka kalahtaa”

Thank you, most appreciated.

Just for curiosity how do you rate us Finns? We didn’t join the second oil crusade on Iraq but we are still in Afghanistan. We sent ground troops on Kosova, did you (why I recall you didn’t)? Not slandering or badmouthing the US, just asking?

Gaear, until I read this post of yours, I thought it was you who censored the map (which I found to be soooo funny) and not Ioannis himself. For this thought based purely on unjustified prejudice I most heartedly apologize. I second every single thing you said here.

@sirchet My apologies for my heated response. It is too easy to answer in-kind when a post seems to be provocative.

@Pappa last lullaby for a veteran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEO6xW0q1rY

 

And this is why I have stayed out of your "discussion".

I expressed my concern and contempt from seeing a map of America literally painted with slanderous words, if you don't understand look at the map again, or don't.

 

But "Phil" what is slanderous in that word?

 

The countries who joined us in those quagmires have my respect. That was exactly what I was talking about. Should I have mentioned the Finns specifically? Only?

There are lot of countries that would deserve a place ahead of Finland. This honestly is NOT a complaint or even some snide put-down. I honestly am ignorant as to what any country's contributions should be. I'm satisfied that they others recognize our contributions by joining us there.

I don't care what they say or really what they contribute, but they have to BE THERE.

 

Rocktoy.
Posting the map, I realise now, was not a very good idea. However, although, as Hugh Manatee pointed out, this map may not reflect the Finns' views on the world, it DOES seem to reflect what we read from some parts of what you write here.
Thus, "the Greeks are this, the Swedes are this, the Russians are that, the Reich is glorious" is getting rather tiresome. Interestingly, I would say that that map was rather "generous" by the standards you have demonstrated so far, as it depicts a large part of Europe as "good Europe".
You seem to see stereotypes everywhere, as they appear to be constantly in the background of your thoughts, just waiting to emerge. I see people instead of stereotypes, and judge accordingly. Sirchet, as I pointed out, has been nothing but polite, friendly and helpful to eveyone here. As such a person, he deserves respect. One does not command respect because of the country he/she comes from, but because of his/her attitude. A thug from the most civilised country of the world, is not above a decent person from a "non-civilised" (I can't think of any other way to put it). If for some reason the thug is placed above the decent person, this is injustice. And injustice will always come back to the person who commits it. Count on that.

Guardian Angel,
I am sure that all NATO Allies participate in the wars (I know we are). What is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan is in my view a debatable issue. What is even more debatable is what was going on in Serbia, back in '99. The US is a superpower, and superpowers do as superpowers do.
The priorities of a country differ, according to the economy, local politics, and to a great extent the georgaphy of that country. As far as the military is concenred, one must also take into account threats to the borders of each country.