Vain person asks about higher education valuability.

Of the attitudes of the American Irish population I have only limited firsthand experience. My American family (the mother) was of Irish heritage, but cared nothing about the cause. They were far more concerned with their domestic economic troubles. But I guess that is what happens when the immigrants become citizens; the problems of the old country are forgotten and replaced by those of the new one.

To my knowledge the term “Ulster” is used to refer the unionist side of the Tuaisceart Éireann, like the Ulster Unionists. But my information is decade old and I wasn’t there for the sights nor the politics, I was learning the language (like I was in Hastings, London and Seattle the summers of 1992 – 1994) by proxy. So there is a possibility I misunderstood this, even though I think I did well with the learning: never passed an English class since (except the final exams of course), but still I think I am quite competent with the language.

What comes to the Army and its maybe ill decisions my opinion is one-sided, nevertheless I am and will always be a supporter of theirs and their cause, which I see as a rightful one. As a soldier (of another army) it is not my place to question the orders/choices of the high command.

In that respect I guess I am a victim of propaganda. One wouldn’t believe the extent of power that the Army wielded in both sides of the border during those days. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the families who hosted us foreign students were carefully chosen by the Army, in order to promote their agenda in foreign countries. In my case they clearly succeeded.

Of any such vote I am unaware of. Then again if you use the term “Ulster” as I understand it, such a result of voting is no surprise since the Ulsterians are loyalist anyways. Though I am aware that the Scotts are shortly to cast a vote over their independence, which I see quite hilarious hence the Scots were never conquered. It was a Scottish king who rose on both of the thrones, on the Scottish and the English.

Unaware maybe, or with another point of view? Here neither the Iron Lady nor Reagan were seen as heroes who ended the cold war, instead they are seen as the last relics of it and Gorbatshov is seen as the first candle. In our history books the cold war/”socialism” ended when the good people of Poland and the Baltic’s had enough. The perestroika and glasnost orchestrated by Gorbatsov enabled this to spread into the Soviet Union. The Iron panties and the Actor were merely statistic in that play.

It is similar Ameri(beep) propaganda as was the so-called victory of the space race. What did the Ameri(beep) actually accomplished, especially to earn the title of a victor? Russians had the first satellite, the first living organism in the space (Laika), first human (Gagarin) and they built a space station (MIRV). Yes the Ameri(beep) supposedly first landed on the Moon, but they have been and still are earthbound ever since. Their “astronauts” can only serve in the International Space Station because the hitchhike on Russian rockets.

What comes to the role of the John Paul Pedofile, he has no reverence here in the protestant North. For clarification: I was born, baptized and brought up as Lutheran. But later I have found out that my old church is as heretical as is the one in Rome. I have begun the painstaking and difficult path to attain membership in the Orthodox Church under the guidance of the Patriarch of Constantinople.

Like Finland.

Thank you. To live is to learn.
Btw. Is “ardent” some derivate “revered”? “Ardent” is an unknown word to me.

 

Ulster (Cúige Uladh) is the name of one of the 4 provinces of Ireland. It used to be a separate kingdom of it's own. Six of its nine counties have consistently voted to remain part of the United Kingdom. The other three counties are part of the Republic of Ireland. Obviously, those 6 counties vote this way because they are predominantly protestant and choose not to live under Irish Catholic rule.

The first "English" conqueror of all of Scotland was Henry II. This did not settle the issue. The Scottish Kings of England did not come until the death of Elizabeth I, five centuries later.

The actions of Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and Pope John Paul in the early and middle 1980's are the CAUSE of the end of the Cold War and the Soviet Union. They colluded to take it down, and were heavily criticized for this, as it amounted to open warfare. For them to be relics of it, they would have had to be around after it. Are you saying the Cold War ended in the '70's?

"Ardent" means passionate.

Your ignorance of the simple facts does not change them.

 

So as I said: the Ulster refers to the loyalist part of the Tuaisceart Éireann, do you not agree? Whatever vote they may have casted is irrelevant, they are the remnants of an occupying army. They have no right to reside in Éire.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Henry II fail to conquer Scotland? I have been told that king Robert of Bruce defeated Henry and Scotland never succumbed under English rule. James Stuart (a distant relative of Elizabeth, who imo should wield the moniker Great) rose to the both thrones after the demise of the house Tudor. Correct?

Did you live trough those events? I did. I do remember (even though I was only nine years of age) that the whole ordeal begun from the Romanian uprising at Christmas day 1989 and the execution of Nicolae Tsausesku. Shortly after followed by the solidarity movement, led by Lech Wałęsa, in Poland and the singing revolution of Estonia. It is no surprise to me that the Ameritard government tries to get the credit of these events. As much as it may hurt you the cold war ended WITHOUT any US interference.

Actually JFK is considered the one who could have ended the cold war, but as popular folklore dictate, he was assassinated by one of his own (suffered the fate of a Roman) before he could bring the confrontation to its end.

Thank you, I learn again.

Even though ignorance is a bliss, what you Ameritards may consider as “facts” are controversial issues, or at least, open to questions, as far as the rest of the world is considered.

 

Ulster was the name long before Ireland was a country. It had it's own king and a long and colorful history. This, of course, does not justify the tragedy of it recently becoming separate from the rest of Ireland.

The people who live there now where born there. They are not from someplace else. They've been there for three and a half centuries. The land is theirs. They have a right to be there.

You are thinking of Henry III (Longshanks) who came a century later. He also succeeded, but, again, only temporarily. I'm proud to say my ancestors rode with the Bruce, who managed to keep Scotland free for some time. (Again only temporarily.)

Yes I do remember, and I wasn't just some kid. I left the Army the year you were born, and sweated out the Reagan years thinking I would be recalled to active duty and sent to fight the Russians as Reagan seemed to be so eager to do. They DID ask me to volunteer to serve in Grenada, but I was then dating my future ex-wife.

I also remember where I was when I heard Kennedy was shot. I can't imagine any historical interpretation that would allow anyone to think that Kennedy ended the Cold War. The closest the world came to nuclear armegeddon was in late 1973, ten years after Kennedy's death.

I also remember the IRA bombing and assassination campaigns that FAILED to liberate Northern Ireland, but SUCCEEDED in alienating Irish-Americans, their number one supporters since Bloody Sunday. You won't see that unstinting support again.

1982 is the year I joined the Guardian Angels Safety Patrol.

Ignorance is not a matter of opinion. It's just ignorance.

 

Reagan and Thatcher, chief among other Western leaders, ended the Cold War by spending the Soviet Union into collape. The US/NATO military buildup throughout the 1980's forced the Soviets to spend far more than they could sustain, crippling the Russian and Eastern Bloc economies and forcing the USSR to cut their satellite countries loose, which of course meant the collapse of those Communist governments. Don't believe the Soviets allowed it to happen? Take a look at how they handled similar uprisings in Eastern Bloc satellite nations in the 50's and 60's. The Russians have never been kind or forgiving to their subjects. They only allowed the collapse of the Eastern Bloc because their nation was too bankrupt to fight it, and the economic devestation they found themselves in was directly attributable to the efforts of Ronald Reagan and company.

Of course, now my generation and my children's are having to pay for it...

 

No argument here. Maybe I failed to be clear enough here. What I understand as “Ulster” is what I was thought by the republican side: they are the loyalist/protestant/English side of the Tuaisceart Éireann. Their English (Anglo-Saxon) ancestors occupied that part of Éire some centuries ago, but never have they been or will ever be considered as na hÉireann. They are foreign conquerors.

Recently, I thought that this separation happened several centuries ago? In the eyes of the na hÉireann the many years they shared under the oppression of UK, is not seen as history spent together. The separation of 1921 was only a confirmation of the centuries old division.

Utterly untrue! This maybe an incomprehensible notion to an American, but in Europe mere residence over some area does not grant ownership, not even those of centuries. na hÉireann will always consider Tuaisceart Éireann as a part of the Éire stolen from them, just as the Serbians will always see the Kosova as their home, we Finnish will never forgive or forgot that the Russians stole our ethnic home (birthplace of our national Epic, Kalevala) Karelian Isthmus, the Swedes will never forget that we stole their Åland and the Norse, Fins and Swedes will always bear a grudge over the Danes for the atrocities committed in Stockholms blodbad, the problems between the Poles and the Deutch about their borders escapes even me, as the internal disputes of the Iberian and Apennine peninsulas. The grudges even a millennia old, still defines us.

I am puzzled here: didn’t both of the Henry’s only managed to occupy a portion of Scotland, mainly the lowlands and even that just for awhile, as the highlands kept their way of life and independence ever till James’s time of unification? To my understanding the (whatever) kings of the southern British Isles (Anglo-Saxons, probably Viking too) tried to conquer the North from Hadrian ’s Wall ever since the Romans left, but had no lasting stand. The way of life of the Highlands was only finally brought to an end by a Scottish king rising on an English throne, and not by the contrary. I too have a long family history of patriots, thus I raise my broadsword (honestly nowadays it is only a ceremonial cavalry saber) to honor your family’s Claymore.

My apologies, I thought that the number 82 in your nickname (?) refers to your year of birth. I should have guessed better, since your arguments have been far too intelligent, educated and aware to have been said by some-one so young. I was born in March 19th AD 1980; I may be young in your eyes, but I am a son of a bastard generation. Old enough to remember the cold war era (most of my university class mates are too young to remember) and young enough to have lived my youth through those remarkable years when the entire world order as we knew it was made anew.

I was old enough, to be summoned (?) into the military service. A last relic in a sense I guess, since our society prepares for its membership in the NATO (which for I object, as a soldier), and only the “operational reserves” are given the training anymore. Unfortunately as I once received special training (in urban warfare and in squad support weapons) I am once again summoned to do my duty. This time I am facing a nice week in Northern Karelian winter, and that scares the shit out of me. I was trained to fight in urban areas, with APC’s, HELOS (?) and with such support. I have nothing but rudimentary training in guerilla warfare and basically no training at all in surviving conditions of three feet deep snow and temperature dropping down between – 13 to – 40 degrees of Fahrenheit ( - 25 - 40 degrees of Celsius). No matter what my future ex says, go I must or suffer the consequences.

GA, were you summoned (?) to the military service, or was it your own choice? The only choice I was able to make was between the service, jail and exile. The latter two were never options to me.

DID I say that JFK ended the cold war? I thought I said he COULD HAVE ended the war, but was assassinated by those of his own, before he could have done anything with lasting effect. “Suffered the fate of a roman”, since for the military and for some corporations the continuation of the cold war was far more lucrative (i.e. welcomed) than the end of it. I have heard tales from my kin how men congregated in silence and women hid in bathrooms to weep when the news of the demise of JFK reached our lands. The hope for end of this cold war was dead indeed, mutually assured destruction lied no-doubt ahead.

“unstinting” ?

What the Army does, I believe, it does it because it has to. I mourn for each and every (if there were any) innocent lives lost due the actions of the Army. Anima eius et animae omnium fidelium defunctorum per Dei misericordiam requiescant in pace.

Godspeed.

Only those who suffer from the sin of pride and arrogance, the sins that brought down the greatest of the heavenly creatures, prince Lucifer, arch-angel of light, dare consider themselves as infallible, beholders of the truth. The rest of us, the maggots of the earth, those who know the limitations of human understanding, realize that no facts beyond the spheres of physics and mathematics exist that we can reach without a margin of error. All the rest considering human history ARE points of view/opinion, relative, unsure. But to do not take my word over it, ask Descartes or Socrates.

The quoted (?) stands as question: is this a right word to be used in this context?

Universally? Really? And I did thought I knew what it withholds (at least in British English spoken that is) but clearly I did not, at least after Gears censorship. As much as I did know the “C” word was quite similar as the “vittu” in Finnish, or the “F” word in American English, which I saw quite much as synonyms. All of them referring to female genitalia and being mundanely used to de-masculinising the (male)subjects. The words that are targeted against the fairer gender would be the ones of “B” and “W” please, feel free to correct me, which I would nor have ever utilized here.

 

You could try calling Americans, Americans. I certainly would appreciate an end to the name calling.

 

The tragedy I am referring to is exactly the one you are referring to. That some of the people are from Britain a few centuries ago does not justify dividing Ireland. Ireland was united for centuries, though not free of the British king, up until then.

We will have to disagree. There is no one else who has any claim on that land. The southerners are not from there. Find out what happened to the Irish who originally lived there on a day you can handle being angry.

The Irish themselves are not originally from Ireland. Their legends claim they are from what is now Spain. Hence Hibernia and Iberia. They took it from the Tuatha de Danann, who took it it from the Fir Bolg, and so forth through at least 3 more peoples. Are the Irish going to leave? I bet the Spanish don't want them. The people who live in Northern Ireland have been there for around 12 generations. They aren't going anywhere, except by choice.

Nixon ended the DRAFT (what you call being summoned) the year before I went down and joined. There hasn't been a draft since. All of our servicemen (and women) have been volunteers ever since.

"Unstinting" means ever-flowing, unstopping.

The C-word is considered FAR more repulsive among English speakers than the other words for a woman's parts. This doesn't have anything to do with puritanical American attitudes torwards sex. If you call a women that here, the relationship is OVER. In general, only the lowest, most ignorant people include that word in their public discourse.

Even "pussy" would not be appropriate here, as Americans HAVE been at war many times since 1945, unlike some of our critics.

Opinions are very different things than facts. The people you picked up your opinions from have justifiable reasons for their unhappiness, but to blame America is shear ignorance.

 

This talk about Ireland, its different regions and the attitudes of the peoples living there. It would be like the people of Sweden claiming ownership of Finland because historically it was part of Sweden and therefore should still be, and if most of the people living in finland don't like that idea, well tough, Finland has only not been part of Sweden for just over 200 years and for more than half of that time it's been part of Russia instead.

 

rocktoy, you need to take it easy man. life is short and full of love. no need to waste it with idle banter.

but in case you dont want to take it easy, heres the truth: all european tribes that were not from ancient egypt were from a distant land called sychia. which was a turkic country. an exception can be mentioned about northern european countries and celts, which were settled by some old eskimo sailors from siberia, which, surprise!, were also turkic. so called anglo saxons were a tribe in northern europe which got helenicised by romans with descending persian people in the region. then they mostly got settled by the second wave from asia with huns and slavs, but huns were also turkic. even the fablous christmas tree is a paganist (i must remind you that turkic tribes were mostly shamanist) turkic tradition. so sorry man, dig deep enough and youll find turks in your grandfathers graves. if you stopped and tried to talk about which land was whose and who had rights, youd come to no conclusion. all life began in africa and look what shape theyre in now. id instead focus more on recent war crimes commited by the great usa.

 

My old English teacher once said: remember: “while communicating there is always a chance of miscommunication, when communicating with a foreign language such a chance is almost certain.”

This is how my twisted logic went: I should not use the term “Americans” here because, as I know from personal experience, not all Americans are “R”, “C”, “F” or any of the sort, so if I use the term “Americans” in a controversial way I would be stigmatizing entire nation, which I should not. I only wanted to lash out (?) on those Americans I consider as “beep”.

So I had to use a better expression, which would single out the beep part of the nation and would not stigmatize the rest of the population. So I came up with a word I learned almost two decades ago in a totally different (yet English speaking) country. I clearly failed. Then again I did not see this coming. Where I learned my poor English the “C” word was the most commonly used, well at least considering the age group I was spending my time with, swear word. As far as I can recall, I never heard anyone using the “F” word. Must be one of the many cultural things that nowadays separate’s the Realm and the Colonies.

Nevertheless, my apologies once again for my ill choice of words.

I guess this is one of the many issues we must agree to disagree with. Then again as I said, in this matter I am one-sided, and I am never afraid to learn more. Point the way and I will follow.

Facepalm. Come on, you should know this. None of the current European tribes are from the areas they now reside, we are all descendants of the Aryan (Indo-European) tribes migrated from the east. We Finns and the Basks may be the last ones in Europe who do not speak Indo-European language, but we still bare the genome of our prehistoric conquerors.

Yes, I get your point. The Europe has always been a continent of tribal migration. But keep in mind that without such a migration your family would have had no place to exile, sons of the colonies.
What comes to the Spaniards, I doubt that the Catalan (Goth) or the Andalusian (Vandal) would much appreciate the return of the Celts, since they are already in war with the Basks. As I said, things in Europe are always complicated.

Correct if I am wrong but wasn’t your draft system selective? Those whit enough money or with right pedigree could have easily avoided service? Here, no such luck. Even my dad (an orthopedic) and my older brother (an anesthesiologists) had to serve their time, which was twice the time did. But then again, they were far more useful to the army than a common cannon fodder as I.

Thank you.

I stand corrected.

Well some of us would consider the lack of wars since 1945 as a blessing, but I wouldn’t expect an American to understand such a notion. The last war you waged defending your own soil was against the Britons (massacring indigenous peoples just doesn’t count), ever since you have been volunteering, or just been conquering oil fields.

Nevertheless: You had the courage to take your stand and do your duty. All I can say is salute! When I was called to volunteer in Yugoslavia my response was as intelligent as: “Trololoo fully served, kiss my …” I envy you. It was a choice I have regretted ever since. In 2009 I ventured in a USMC recruit center in Oregon (Astoria?), they said I was too old to enlist (or they just didn’t like my log hair and beard). As soon as I got back home I volunteered to active service in Afghanistan, same answer. I am stuck with service here, till I turn fifty.

I guess we have to agree on disagree on this.

Correct. Like Éire has been a colony of the English so has been Finland a colony of the Swedes. Correction: we were Swedish slaves over 500 years, ever since the year AD 1323 till 1809 when we became slaves of the Tsars. Neither of you have any claim over us, the Swedes coward in 1809 as did the Soviets meet their match in 1944.

A lesson to be learned, no doubt.

All I can say: vedä ittes narunjatkoks…

 

We agree completely on this. If EVERYONE is not subject to military service, then it is yet another burden for the underprivelaged. I am, of course, proud to have been one of the 1%.

I've always felt that everyone should have to put in 2 years of service to their country unless they are so mentally incapacitated as to be incapable. A little dose of reality would do a lot of people some serious good. Maybe the chance of getting their children killed or horribly mutilated might also give those in power pause.

A lack of war would indeed be a blessing, but then there's the truth. Think how many people would have lived if America hadn't been so isolationist before WWII. Failing to intervene in a bad situation doesn't allow you to escape the consequences. But if you wish for American intervention, that means you have to put up with American intervention.

It's better to fight a war defending your own soil on the other guy's soil. We also like to defend our friends, even nuisances like our brothers the French. Sorry.

Service in Yugoslavia would have been long, tedious, unpleasant, thankless and possibly fatal. Worse, you may have been called on to fight on the side that you really didn't believe in. But if no one had gone there, the slaughter would have continued.

Honestly, I am not very excited about the injustice of the Serbians losing their homeland, there are PEOPLE living there now. The time to correct that injustice was centuries ago. If the people who live there now don't want to be Serbians (understandable), then it's decided. THEY were born there, not someone else. Changing that now would simply perpetuate another injustice.

 

brothers? nah. they just wanted everyone to be on their side when the evil russians invaded from underground. white christian image is just the cover. say if france suddenly decided to enforce nato protocols on usa or take them to european human rights court for big stuff they would be smoking napalm. or like if they found french agents in the senato. LOL

 

Just been skimming through this debate.
In future I would sugggest a little research before launching these debates.
Google Micheal Collins you will learn about the long struggle for Irish Independence.
A tragic tale of missed oppertunities.
Learn the facts not just romantic notions.

 

No. They were our first ally and they have been our ally the longest. We have fought on their side in both world wars. They our brothers. We are stuck with them.

But, this doesn't mean we love everything they do or that they will do what we want. This is probably a good thing.

What the hell is a "white christian"?