Question on animal companions and animated dead.

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by sradac, Jan 21, 2011.

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  1. sradac

    sradac Member

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    I noticed this several times and it gets quite frustrating, when there are neutrals around in a fight my silly animal companions always attack whatever non-party member is closest. When I fought the orc rogue in verbobonc Rocky, the Giant Lizard succeeded in making the entire tavern want to throw drunken punches at my party. Same thing in Nulb, caught a lady pickpocketing me, couldnt talk down her man, got into a fight, and Jeckel the Jackal decided to go biting everything in sight.


    Also, how long does undead I raise last for? It seems to be quite a while, I want to say it looks like its permanent. I've had the urge to roll an evil party, slaughter Nulb, and animate all of the dead turning it into my own personal necropolis. But as fun as it would be it would just be a waste of time in the end if I do that and come back after a month of game time just to find the magic faded and all thats left are piles of bones and rotted corpses about.

    Also I noticed the description of dominate claims the target gets added to my party as a controllable NPC but it dosent seem to do that. The targets ring stays red, I dont have direct control over it, but it behaves as if a charm spell was cast.
     
  2. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    1) It's just the way the companion AI works. They attack any non-friendlies.

    2) Be aware that there's a limit on how many crits you can have controlled at one time (I think it was something like 15).

    3) Do you have NPC slots left?
     
  3. Cloudsprinter

    Cloudsprinter Member

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    we've all had days that like that:roll:
     
  4. Dreddnawt

    Dreddnawt Mettlehead

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    First want to link two relevant Co8 threads, among others, I read after searching this topic:

    http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7505&highlight=animal+companions
    http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7272&highlight=animal+companions

    With that out of the way I wanted to discuss Animal Companions and the problems associated with trying to use them.

    1) They are uncontrollable. They often run headlong into battle and get killed right away. They wait for nothing and often can ruin any "pull to group" or ambush strategies. Mods: would it be possible to set some limits on them, as in something as basic as short commands like Guard, Stay, Attack, Follow? Hearing of a fix for this in v7 would be stupendous.

    2) ACs, Summoned Creatures, and Summoned Weapons have WAY TO MUCH agro from the game AI to be usable. Seriously, Ive watched on several occasions as enemies run through 2-3 AoOs from my characters just trying to reach my critters in the back. A bugbear will run right past my tank, cleric, and wizard to take a swipe at my wolf. Why? Why do they drop friggin everything to attack the new critter if you summon anything during a fight? Its like the AI completely forgets about PCs whenever there is a Summon, Familiar, or Companion in play.

    3) Low levels are a bitch. I gave up trying to keep my critters alive til like lvl 5-6. And Im not talking about a horde, just a Ranger and Druid AC and a Wizzys Raven. I ended up putting the Raven in my pack and leaving it there. But Ive seen the same thing testing Cleric, Druid, and Wizzy summons. Every enemy goes right for the summon even if doing so risks getting their heads caved in. The summoned creature gets swarmed and is dead in a round or 2. ACs rush to the front of every encounter, yet never flank, and they get squished quick while preventing any real use of AoE spells.

    4) How closely does ToEE follow the dismissal rules for Animal Companions? If I dismiss an AC and summon another does it start over as a regular beast or does it come leveled-up as is appropriate for the druid/rangers current level? Ive been busting my butt to keep these things alive and many times have them a few rooms behind me just to be sure they dont enter combat which makes having them there pointless really.

    5) Lastly, if your companion dies and you summon a replacement: does the new summon have the additional HD and stats according to your level or does it come vanilla and need to be "kept" to level up as in PnP. If it does recall at the appropriate level then Ive been wasting tons of time and effort.

    Just so you know where Im at. My party is level 10. I have a 10 Druid with a Panda and a 6 Ranger (/4bard) with a Wolf. My wizard Raven stays in the pack. My critters are much more dependable now but I regularly use Bears Endurance, Shield of Faith, and Stoneskin on them and keep them well in the back of formations if not standing idle "guarding" cleared areas.
     
  5. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Re. AI agro
    Unfortunately the game's AI is fairly stupid. Take a peek inside the "ToEE's AI" thread in general modification to get a better understanding.

    The bugbears who ignore everything and go for your summons/pets are probably set to "target low ac" - i.e. they look for the party member with the lowest AC. It's not unlikely that your summons are that party member. Otherwise, most NPCs use 'target closest' (which is also abuseable, since you can summon fodder in front of the party and buy yourself some time).

    Sometimes you can create custom scripting to make the NPCs act smarter, but it's all very custom tailored. E.g. I've recently posted a workaround for Spiritual Weapons, that should hopefully solve that for them, at least in most cases.

    As for your request for telling ACs to stay. It's possible to create some sort of workaround - you can swap their Strategy to a "stay strategy". But there's no interface for triggering that.
    It may be possible to create a special item, that stores a free action "spell" which is scripted to swap their strategy. E.g. a Whistle of Stay Put (and the accompanying Whistle of Sic'em Boy!). If there's enough interest in the above I could give it a shot.
     
  6. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    I find using the formation, and placing the ACs in the back can help. I like to think they are protecting the squishy spellcasters, who may have some treats in those wizard robe pockets.

    While it is hard to keep them alive and be useful at the same time is hard, but it is worthwhile if you can. I had a jackal that survived from 1st level to the end of the game. When ACs survive, they level up with the druid, so he had almost 100 hps by the game's end. I kept him alive by the wizard using Made Armor, then Stoneskin on him, and the Druid using Magic Fang on him. He could hold his own in most fights.
     
  7. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Sitra
    It's been a while since I have played the last version of KoTB, but I seem to recall that there was "AC Control panel" that worked fairly well.
    The Royal Canadian

     
  8. grinner666

    grinner666 Member

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    I generally buff the living SNOT out of my animal companions ... and I almost always have one. Me likey Druids!!

    Mage Armor, Stoneskin, Barkskin, Bull's Strength, Magic Fang or Greater Magic Fang, Protection from Evil or Magic Circle against Evil ... use as many of these on the animal companion as you can. You do that, you basically won't need a fighter in the party.

    The one suggestion I would make is, don't even TRY to keep the jackal alive until the end of the game. Dismiss him as soon as you reach 7th level and can summon a brown bear. They can start out with more basic hit points than the six-levels-improved jackal, have better attacks, and do much more damage. Also they, too, will improve as the Druid rises in levels. The polar bear is even better, especially now that levels don't cap out at 10th, but I object to summoning that creature in a temperate environment.
     
  9. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Dreddnawt
    The Royal Canadian
     
  10. Dreddnawt

    Dreddnawt Mettlehead

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    Thanks for the feedback all.

    I guess brickdumb companions is just something to live with. I wish troika had gave some minimal control over companions but you cant win them all.

    My pets are living through fights and being more helpful now then lower levels since I have the spare spells to buff them and dont have to buff my tank as much. Their AI is still annoying but that is primarily a clash with my strategies.

    Mainly they get in the way when Im trying to "pull" creatures to my group. That is run my tank or ranger up to agro a room full of baddies then run down the hall to wear my group waits in ambush. I did the Water Temple, among others, like this and effectively kept the Juggernaut at bay until the entire rest of the room was cleared.

    But the pets, even in the back of formation where I normally keep them, tend to run up and botch the pull for me regularly. If I pull them back far enough not to agro on incoming creatures, then they usually dont join the fight at all.

    I think next play through I'll just ignore the ACs and use them like a free and longer lasting summons instead of trying to nurture them.
     
  11. grinner666

    grinner666 Member

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    Actually, you're mistaken here. Getting rid of an animal companion and summoning another one provides you with an AC with whatever extra hit dice your level allows the beast to take.
     
  12. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Interesting, never noticed that. Will take a look.
     
  13. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    Thanks, Dreddnawt, for those links discussing animal companions. In one of those links, Shiningted lists his animal companion commands in his The Keep On The Borderlands module:

    Originally posted by Shiningted:
    Sitra, I for one would very much like it if you could make animal companions' combat behaviour less suicidal, or if you could give the player the option to give his/her animal companions orders for combat such as "stay near your druid/ranger master" or "flee from enemies while Hit Points are less than 25% of maximum Hit Points", etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  14. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Animal companions definitely have an inventory. On more than one occasion I've had the elves or Thrommel's company give me gift, you know the gold and those amulets. Well I had an animal companion die in a battle afterward, and he had lootable treasure after the fight-the amulets, gold, and potions. I've even seen my bear companion stand up a drink a healing potion-one of the one's the elves give everyone.

    To test this theory, I even pulled out the wizard's familiar before the meeting, then killed him off. The familiar also got an equal share of 500gp, 2 amulets, and a potion. So the possibilities are there for them to equip something, or at least use something.
     
  15. Dreddnawt

    Dreddnawt Mettlehead

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    ^ The idea is great and I actually missed that he inferred it was an available feature in kotb. But any kind of interface with ACs would work, being a small radial or via dialogue by selecting "Talk" option. I think getting into AC inventories is pushing things a bit because that opens the can of worms labeled 'What happens to the items when it dies or is dismissed?' and could lead to game errors, exploits, lost valuables, and over-complicating the game.

    But I think the simple commands should be enabled, possibly augment pets with the Command spell effect on them or something. Should at least have:

    Stay - being sit down and dont move or take action
    Guard - being sit and Ready vs Approach within 15-20ft, (attack if attacked)
    Attack - being go on the offensive, target nearest enemy
    Follow - being stop Sitting, Guarding, or Attacking and return to owner (move)

    I think writing a new spell script much like a Command or Charm and adding it to either permanently affect pets or being a free action unlimited cast for pet owners would be easiest. The spell would influence normal pet behavior without actually having to change the pet AI and the game would treat it as if your pet was charmed.
     
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