So I see that there are a few new individual fixes listed in the Game Guide thread. http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8742 I had questions about two of them, namely, the Spiritual Weapon abuse fix (hooray if it actually works!) and the Summon monster fix. Neither of the fixes comes with any instructions nor are the files in directories, which makes me a bit hesitant to simply guess at which folder the files should go in and stick them there. Also, Summoning spells take a full round to complete, which means that the summoned creature does not appear right away, but is supposed to appear right at the beginning of the summoner's next turn, and at that point is able to act immediately on his/her initiative. Does this fix make the creature appear in the same round the spell is cast, able to act immediately? If so it would not be a proper fix... thanks!
Actually, the spell description itself is rather clear about the initiative with which the summoned creature acts: As such it should act on the turn it is summoned. The fix is done properly.
I'm afraid that's only half of the picture Azured. Refer to the section on magic/spellcasting in general and you'll see that spells that have a 1 round casting time (as opposed to standard action) always produce the results of the spell the NEXT round. Summoning spells are such spells; the summon appears the NEXT round and can act on immediately on your initiative/turn. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#castingTime This is how summon spells work in 3.5e. As is, this fix does not work correctly per RAW. In fact, my guess is that the reason why in the unmodded game Summons appear and do nothing for the first round is the developer's half ass attempt to try to make the spells work per the rules, ie. the summon can't act until the next round. The problem is that it shouldn't be there AT ALL the first round; as is, it often stands there helplessly while enemies attack it (flatfooted to make matters worse) and often kill it in the casting round before it even has a chance to do any good (other than soaking up the damage, which is better than nothing I suppose).
@ithildur, we don't do a 'cumulative fixpack' anymore, and we don't usually post individual bugfixes intended to be applied on the player end. (The ones you refer to are actually posted in a dev thread and are intended for internal use.) So basically those files were not meant for you. The fixes will appear in the next modpack (pending the RAW determination on summons).
While I do not want to throw this thread into a grinding argument, I'd like to politely point out that spell descriptions overrule general rules regarding spellcasting as defined by the rule hierarchy (i.e. basics < specifics < exceptions). As such, the exceptional description of the summon spell overrules the general rules of spellcasting. Peace.
ithildur's right, the summon isn't supposed to appear at all until the next round, just before your turn. Never knew that. But, as it is, the engine simply treats it as "Full Round = Standard + Move action", and the summon appears immediately. Barring some elaborate workaround system or serious DLL hackery, that's how the spell's going to work, because that's how it's hard coded. That means it'll never be RAW. Thus, it's a grey area. Arguments in favor of the fix: 1. The creature already appears, and per its description it should attack immediately after appearing. 2. As mentioned, it's annoying that it just stands there and often gets killed without doing anything. 3. The animal standing around doing nothing can also act in a player's favor, because when it stands still and does nothing, there's less of a chance it runs into AoOs and dies, and might serve as a better distraction for enemy AI (which is often how it's used). Thus, the fix makes it less exploity in that sense. Arguments against: (that I can think of) 1. Per RAW, it's not supposed to appear till the next round, so why should you gain a 'free attack'? I should also test whether the casting round counts for purposes of calculating the duration. I.e. suppose a level 1 caster summons, would the summon disappear the next round before doing anything at all? If so, then that's another argument in favor. Re. file instructions, .py files go into data\scr. As always, use at your own risk.
@Azured: I realize the rule of specifics overrides generals; it does not apply here because the specifics do not contradict the general rule in this case. The spell description is describing how the spell works ONCE it goes into effect; i.e. the creature can act IMMEDIATELY on the caster's initiative once it's summoned. That's all it's saying. It does not have anything to do with the fact that the spell is still a full round spell which means the spell does not go into effect until the next round. @Gaear & Sitra Achara: Yeah, I figured this one might be something that's not easily fixable. I simply wanted to point out that as is, it's not a proper 'fix', but more of a tweak/workaround in lieu of a better solution. As always, thanks for the efforts put into fixing this game regardless; I realize there are many elements that will not work perfectly like pnp given the limitations of the game engine and the lack of source code, etc. Cheers!
