Fallout, Facebook, and the Evils of Social Media

Episcapalian is the American term for the Anglican or Church of England.
Cromwell abolished the Anglican Church when he became the Head of the British Commanwealth.

If you read contemporary accounts from the Netherlands and other European states he was regarded the same way as the Ayatollah Khomeini was in more recent times.
With the added worry that he had a well trained state of the art professional army and navy.

He is the most hated man in Irish History you can see why

In August 1649, Cromwell and 12,000 soldiers arrived in Ireland. During the next ten years of bloodshed it is estimated that about a third of the population was either killed or died of starvation. The majority of Roman Catholics who owned land had it taken away from them and were removed to the barren province of Connacht. Catholic boys and girls were shipped to Barbados and sold to the planters as slaves.

The land taken from the Catholics by Cromwell was given to the Protestant soldiers who had taken part in the campaign. Before the rebellion in 1641, Catholics owned 59% of the land in Ireland. By the time Cromwell left in 1650 the proportion had shrunk to 22%.


What is the familly name associated with the exile you might find out you've got a famous parlimentarian in your family.

If I help you get your Scottish lands back can you help me get my family's lands back that sere confiscated by the American Government after the Revolution?

 

The lands were returned to my family after Cromwell was dead. If there were anything left to be returned, I would get little to nothing as it was ten generations ago and there are more members of my family in the new world than in Scotland. I wouldn't want the responsibity anyway.

If you family's lands were wrongfully taken, you may have a case for some sort of compensation.

I understand Cromwell did a lot of good for the English, but he was responsible for so much brutality that has been conveniently forgotten. History forgets the victims more quickly than the victors.

 

I watched a documentary about Cromwell on the History Channel recently and I was shocked at the incompetence and down right ruthlessness depicted in the History Channel's account of the campaign.

How can a man be made general when he has only one tactic, frontal assault?

Cromwell's poor leadership and non-existent field tactics killed more of his troops than anything else, (at least according to the History Channel).

Did either of you guys catch this show and was it an accurate assessment of his campaign?

 

Cromwell is famous for organization of a permanent standing army that would go anywhere to campaign as opposed to the usual parlimentarian local militias that would refuse to leave their areas. This meant his enemies could be pursued and defeated where ever they were.

But mainly he was a politician. Only a few of the military leaders had any tactical skill. This has always been true when officers are inexperienced and untrained.

 

I haven't seen the documentory, I'd take it with a grain of salt there were several Parlimentarian Generals who were very successful leaders.

At the battle of Dunbar the Scottish Coventors were defeated by an army lead by Cromwell. (Fairfax refused to lead the army against their former allies).
He seems to have done some clever manoevering at night in torrential rain which is no easy feat I imagine.

I find sometimes documentorys shoehorn facts into a preconcieved idea.
I'll look out for it though.

I've started reading up on the civil war again I studied it at universtiy but have forgotten most of what I learned.

The best thing to come out of the war was the supremacy of Parliment over the Monarchy.
Most of the reforms were reversed with the Restoration of Charles II.

 

Death would have been the sentence for the actions my great granduncle took, only to him, though. Rest of the family would have been exiled into the lovely Siberia. Luckily that never happened.

With due all respect I disagree. If I am allowed to hazard a guess, you didn’t return because there was nothing to return to. You had already lost your roots in the Lowlands and grew new ones in the soil of the New World. This new home exists in reality and the old home only in memories. In comparison, I know that there is a rather large community of people with Finnish heritage living in the Great Lakes area who may consider themselves as Finnish (having dual citizenship and all) but who have pledged their loyalty to the stars and stripes. We, natives, see them as foreigners.

- Nam: Domino theory: one Asian country falls under the evil of communism, rest will follow. Ah the fear of communism, a root of evil, which still keeps you from establishing a free healthcare system.

- Libya: Democrat President paying attention for the voice of the rest of the world. Given that this is an anomaly.

- Kuwait and Iraq: Oil.

- Afghanistan: Primary reason: Refusal of the Taliban leaders to follow the orders given by the US government. I.e. Telling you whether Osama was in Afghanistan or not, and refusal to give him up should he have been there. Secondary reason: take control over the largest opium/heroin producer in the world.

- Somalia: Stopping the spreading of radical islam (شباب) and to establish a foothold in order gain access to the vast natural resources of the continent. Of course one black hawk down and some gtfo from the natives were enough for the yanks to retreat…

No matter. Any and all foreign aid distributed by the US government is funded by loans from other countries (China or EU or smth). It is easy to spend money, and even easier if it is someone else’s money…


Anyone (especially the US) can be the local bully in his back yard. And that is how the US handles their relations with their southern neighbors, by bullying. Thank God for Venezuela and Chavez.

 

Our lands were returned to us. Relatives reoccuppied them. However the idea that there was nothing to return to is not entirely unfounded. We didn't like the Scottish Catholic kings nor the Puritan / Anglican (Episcopal) Parliament of the English. And we had been supporters of the Stewarts for generations.

2 more countries, Laos and Cambodia, did fall under the influence of Communism. Then the Commies returned to warring against and murdering each other.

The first president that tried and failed to established universal health care was a Republican: Theodore Roosevelt. This was before there was any Communist regime to "fear". We fear our own government on this issue. Yet it is something that should have been done long ago.

This is not the US. This is being handled by you Europeans.

Not OUR oil. At the time, it was Japan and you Europeans. Why don't you check this yourself?

Concerning Bin Laden: correct. Why is he your hero? Do you think he was justified in his attacks on the US? He was a bored rich boy who wanted attention.

Heroin farming was not allowed when the Taliban was in charge. This was in our interest.

Wrong. We were there at the request of UN relief organizations during a famine. Aidid was seizing food shipments and using them to gain power. Aidid's power, and later Aidid, was destroyed and the president ordered the withdrawal of US troops. Even with the US gone, radical Islam has not gained any particular power there. The citizenry are too heavily armed.

The Marshal Plan, which benefited even our former enemies, was before the Communists took over in China. This started the US habit of providing aid to foreign countries.

The money that the Chinese use to to "support us"comes from our companies investing in their companies and their companies selling their to US citizens. They are investing their money in the best place they can find.

What exactly do you think Chavez is accomplishing? Details, please.

Welcome back, Rocktoy! :wave:

 

Your lands were returned? That is something I can never relate to. The land, as a physical place, holds almost sacrosanct notion in Finnish culture. The land does not just give you the grain/livelihood, but it holds the bones of the foregone generations. My family is from the western coast so I still have a place where I can visit my origins. Even if the actual farmhouse is not there anymore, the graveyard is still there and nurtures the line of my people till the beginning of time. I cannot even imagine the pain of those people from Carelian Isthmush, who once had to leave their homes and graves behind, and seek shelter from the houses of ours. My apologies: the burden of exile is far more than I could bear.

“Catholic”? I always thought that the Scots were (Protestants) Presbyterians?

True. But was the conversion to communism as an initial idea or a reaction against the US presence? Also there is no humanitarian way of justify the bombings of these countries (the US dropped more bombs here than there were dropped in the entire WW2), not to mention the minefields. I just got last weekend the training how to act in modern minefield. Fuck you all who use antipersonnel mines!! Burn in Hell!!!

This is something that an European cannot understand. In 2009 when I was visiting the great US and my host family explained me how it is ok that in “socialist” Europe the government(/tax payers) pays your medical bill, but in “democratic” US you have to pay it by yourself. Never made any sense to me.

Missed the meant irony. At once we have a democratically elected US president, who’s not afraid to do the right thing.

Please? You are not serious?

No such atrocity deserves neither recognition, nor act of terror any admiration. But why? Have you ever spend a split second wondering why US could be the target of such an attack. Btw. Osama is not my hero (perhaps excluding the martyrdom), and there is still no public evidence that he was responsible of the WTC attacks. I see the birth of another Che Guevara.

In which reality (decade) do you live in? The Somalian civil war have lasted now two decades, and the last party who ever managed gain any foothold were the radical islamist (al shahaab). Read more that CNN.

The Marshal plan is ancient history. And as you should know we fins were the only ones who ever paid you back that dept. What comes to your national economy:
U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

“The Outstanding Public Debt as of 30 Sep 2011 at 07:44:32 PM GMT is:
The estimated population of the United States is 311,401,867
so each citizen's share of this debt is $47,235.78.”

Forgot to mention Chaves. After Katrina he gave cheap oil and other ways of help to US citizens that their government would ever give.

 

I'm intrigued by GA's story.
His familly were supporters of the Stuarts who the English distrusted because of their
Catholic sympathys. Their strongest support came from Ireland and the Scottish Highlands.

If GA's familly got on the wrong side of an Anglican Bishop it must have been pre-1639.
As that was when the Coventors kicked the Bishops out of Scotland and established an Independent Scottish Church.

This is pre the English Civil war and Charles I was King( a Stuart)

After the Civil War the Episcipal Church was abolished by Parliment so Cromwell would not have conspired with a powerless Bishop to steal anybodys land.


After the Civil war in the 19650's Crowell had Catholic Irish thrown off their land and Planted English and Scottish soldiers there. If this is when GA's familly ended up in Ireland it would suggest they were colonists given land as a reward for supporting Parliment in the Civil War.


When the Scottish Coventors lost the battle of Dunbar the non_wounded Scottish prisoners
were transported to New England and the Barbadoes as indentured labourers. Could that be how they ended up in America?



I went to get a book on the English Civil war the other day and got a book called "A Viet Cong Memoir" y Truong Nhu Tang

Pretty damn interesting and so far a great read. After that I'm going to read A Vietnam War Almanac by Colonel Harry G. Summers


In an earlier discussion on Iraq I pointed out that the war was more like a hostile corparate take over.

When the British Army libertated the Port of Basra and prepared to hand it over to civilainoperators they were told they couldn't because the contract had already been awarded to an American busness pre-invasion.

Similarily when a Scandanavian Company tried to set up an emergency mobile phone network that contract had already been awarded to an American company.

For an alternative veiw to CNN or Al Jazeera I suggest you look up articles written by Robert Frisk.

Remember George Galloway MP said to the US Senate

I have met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is that Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns. I met him to try and bring about an end to sanctions, suffering and war, and on the second of the two occasions, I met him to try and persuade him to let Dr Hans Blix and the United Nations weapons inspectors back into the country - a rather better use of two meetings with Saddam Hussein than your own Secretary of State for Defense made of his.

 

Under the fuedal system, the King ultimately owns all the land.

Presbetyranism didn't come until after the Reformation. Scots have never been all one religion anyway. They were Britannic Christians before they were forced into Catholicism. And "pagans" before Christians.

In Laos, there was an actual invasion by the NVA. In Cambodia, there were NVA base camps in the east that supported the Khmer Rouge.

Yes. Europe is handling Lybia. We aren't there.

Yes. I am.

Only the historically ignorant respect Guevara. Al Quaida claimed responsility for the attacks.

1990 is when the UN requested assistance. Aidid was a local warlord, not an Islamic fundamentalist. We were gone by 1992, as was Aidid.

Absolutely true. The Finns ARE the only ones who paid us back. The Marshal Plan was only 60 years ago. European Communism was only 20 years ago.

Yes. We still buy oil from Venezuela.

 

Technically, we were supporters of the Stewarts. The Stuarts were the kings.

Afterwards.

Cromwell was Lord Protector.

He wasn't powerless. I'm not sure why he had any authority. Perhaps to undermine the Covenant.

We had family members that supported Cromwell at first.

One of my ancestors was actually born in Northern Ireland, though he moved to the colonies with his father. We ended up in Virginia, perhaps by way of New Jersey. We were in Virginia during the Revolution.

 

Cromwell became Lord Protector in 1653 after two post war Parliments.
The Anglican Church was dis-established by Cromwell in 1649
The Coventors were friends and allies of the English Parlimentarians .
Lord Farfaix resigned his command of the Englih army rather than fight them.
Cromwell was also reluctant to attack his former allies
At the time he was not Lord Protector but commander of the English Army. 1650 to 1651 he replaced Fairfax

Feudalism ended with the Civil War, but was pretty much on it's way out by then.

What was the name of this nefarious churchman?

On December 31 2006 Britain paid off the last of it's World War II loans.

 

The House of Stewart is the same as the House of Stuart there was just a change of spelling.

 

Yes the feudal system, yet another alien thought for a Scandinavian. The word in Finnish (talonpoika) that translates as “peasant” literally translates also as “son of the house”/”lord of the house”. We have always owned our land, only the land that was not claimed by some family belonged (and still belongs) to the crown.

True. Guevara was a murderer and a torturer, yet he is revered by so many. No doubt that Osama will gain the same shroud of martyrdom after few years.

Yep. Adid is gone as well as the US. The war is still there and the most successful side is the fundamentalist islamist from al sahaab.

Hypocrite don’t you think?

 

Chavez? Like most punk regimes, he needs a "Great Satan", to distract his peoples' attention. Business as usual.