There are 54,546 Russians in Finland

There are 54,546 Russians in Finland? That's an entire Tank Army. Start making Molotov Cocktails! :yikes:

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

That is the number of Russian-speaking people, who can be of any ethnicity present in Russia or in the former USSR. And, maybe, some of them Russian spies have learned Finnish after all these years.

<thinks to himself>
"We are going off-topic again, nooooo!"

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

Not to go entirely of topic, I must say that I am not familiar whit the exact number of test subjects in order to conduct a scientifically valid genetic survey. I would imagine that the numbers in said survey is acceptable, given that mitochondrial DNA is inherited almost without variation and the randomization while selecting the test subjects was properly conducted.

IMO sometimes going off-topic is the very acceptable price we pay for having a lively and interesting conversation. Do you not agree?

Like all the other colonial masters, we too mistreated our indigenous peoples. Only a small part of the ethnically Sami can still speak (one of the many) Sami language. And yes, all the Finnish citizens speak either Finnish or Swedish (usually both), otherwise they are not qualified as Finnish citizens.

Curiously that map looks a lot like the “lebensraum” planed by one Adolf. As I said the borders of “Europe” whether they are drawn ethnically, culturally or even geographically, are open to a debate. When I drove from Helsinki to Constantinople (falsely named as Istanbul by the invaders) there was a road sing “you are now leaving Europe” before the bridge (actually there are three bridges) over the Bosporus Straights and another one saying “Welcome to Asia” on the other side. Being dead honest; the only languages in Europe: that are not of Indo-European origin are Finnish and Bask. That of course does not mean that the Fins or Basks are not European, only that those are the only languages that survived the prehistoric Indo-European invasion.

After the collapse of CCCP, Finland conducted a policy called the Honor Debt: any former soviet citizen that could prove Finnish heritage and/or a heritage to a war veteran that fought against the allies was given automatically Finnish citizenship and allowed to move in Finland with one’s whole family. Of course the majority of those people, did not speak (or at least as their first language) Finnish. Oh glory, we gave the name to the Molotov Cocktail, sadly it is somewhat useless against the modern Russian tanks…

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

Yea! No weapon could stop modern Russian tanks!
Umm, because they do not move, actually, and you can not stop something that does not move. :roll:

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

They are still the most commonly used tanks throughout the world. They must be good for something. We even use them at Fort Irwin with the Opfor. They have been tearing up regular Army units in manuevers for decades. Russian tanks also seemed to do okay in Georgia.

Getting back to the original topic: If I understand correctly, the Georgians aren't Indo-Europeans, yet they are near the area where Indo-Europeans were supposed to have originated.

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

Really?...

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

Aha. The one thing the soviets did well (that I know of) was their weapons. Their missiles, tanks and infantry weapons are the most widely spread legacy of any nation. Heck, even Osama poses with an AKSU-74 and when I served my compulsory year in the army I specialized in the use of PKM. Honestly, if needed I would always choose a soviet weapon over a NATO crap for two reasons: quality and reliability.

The peoples who nowadays occupy Georgia have nothing to do with the peoples that once migrated from there.

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

That does not mean most Georgians are not nice people though.

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

Care to clarify what “Opfor” is? I conclude that Fort Irwin is some military training centre. Just curious. Life is an endless line of learning.

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

My pleasure. I'm not fully knowledgeable on these things myself.

Opfor stands for "Opposing Force". The Opfor at Fort Irwin, California is manned by the 11th "Blackhorse" ACR, which used to be in the Fulda Gap in Germany as part of the Fifth Corps. They use capured or purchased Soviet Bloc equipment to man a fictional unit: the 577(?) Motorized Rifle Regiment (MMR). Other Army units are rotated to Irwin to train against them on a regular basis. Most of the Soviet equipped armies, such as the Iraqi, are similarly organized and equipped. The Opfor regularly wins the wargames against the units that train there. It just goes to show what Soviet units could have done if there had been enough money to train them regularly.

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

They have an advantage of known ground, do not they? Maybe their equipment has not SO much to do with their victories.
AND those wargames are a routine for them.
AND they are better trained than their opponents, right, they train in wargames frequently, their opponents less frequently...

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

You are very right in every point. But in WWII, the Germans beat the Allies in France with a smaller army and inferior equipment and did a pretty good job against the Soviets under similar circumstances. When they had superior equipment, they LOST.

Russian equipment isn't the best, but it's good enough. My faith in Soviet equipment comes from being a Soviet Motorized (BTR-50) Rifle Battalion commander in wargames while I was a cadet at Texas A&M University. I used to spank those Yankee Imperialist Running Dog Lackeys up and down the hillsides and through the woods on Sunday afternoons. My company commanders were guys that I also played D&D with on Fridays and Saturdays. Theoretically, I must have studied occasionally, since I got my degree. But I have no memory of that.

Your point is the same as mine, it's not the equipment that wins wars.

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

Thank you for the clarification, most enlightening and ever so interesting. If you may, I would comment some parts:
“ACR” as I have mentioned before English acronyms are and will be a puzzle to me, please avoid those in future (or include clarification in captions). In this case I was able to understand the whole text nevertheless, but curious as I am I would like to know what that stands for.
“MMR” I think you misspelled that. By my experience military acronyms (at least in European tradition) tend to be rigidly based on alphabetical order: motorized rifle regiment = MRR. Could be wrong though.

“The Opfor regularly wins the wargames against the units that train there. It just goes to show what Soviet units could have done if there had been enough money to train them regularly.”
I take it that you yourself have no military experience/training (no offence intended)? You missed the one and most important factor in military success: motivation. During the Winter War we stood and hold 105 days with ill-equipped army of some 350k against the millions of the Red Army. Our only anti-tank weapons were pine logs and Molotov Cocktails. Share determination.

What comes to the training: no US unit (even the navy seals nor the French foreign legion) can match with the Soviet Spesnatz. To the Soviets it was not only acceptable but also expected that certain number of trainees will die during the training. During the first Afghan war the soldiers of Spesnatz slid their nostrils to able easier breathing in the thin air of mountains. The Spesnatz also wore the only known body armor able to stop multiple rounds of 7,62*39 AK round, that being a solid vest of 2 cm (0.78 inch) thick homogenous steel weighing some 20 kg (44.2 pounds). Only a totalitarian government could enforce such a training and no democratic/free system could/can ever reach even close. As a soldier I have nothing but the highest respect to the soviet Afghan veterans. Honor where it is due.

Said that it is hardly a surprise that well motivated unit wielding superior (soviet) equipment is triumphant.

Edit: You do have military training? Where, when, how long and what kind?

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

My apologies. I meant to do that. ACR = Armored Cavalry Regiment. An armored unit organized to function dispersed as small units. This violates traditional armored doctrine.

You made my point for me: superior training DOES pay off. The only other issue I addressed was equipment. You seemed to agree with me there, too.

 

Re: Human Genome project discussion

@ Gaear:

Boss, do we need to start a new thread here?