Improvements

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Gaear, Apr 25, 2011.

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  1. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    With the updated modpack (what will end up being called 6.1.0 instead of 6.0.2 due to the large amount of fixes/updates) only a day or so away, now is a good time to look at future improvements. Similarly to the 'What would you like to see' threads, I'd like to get some player input on the current state of the modpack, but in less of a feature request way and more of a 'change this or that in such and such way' or 'make this or that better' way. So in that regard, please list the things that you think could be improved.

    You don't have to provide extensive lists for the sake of discussion, just the things that you actually feel are less than optimal. Indeed, shorter lists will likely get more specific attention and longer lists will just induce modder fatigue. Basically, "make Verbobonc teh shizzle!" = vague/bad, "give Wilfrick a pointed hat!" = specific/good. ;)

    By way of example, here is a list of some improvements that are already planned for the future:

    • Texture upgrades | Verbobonc

      Streets and curbs | I've always been sort of unhappy with Verbobonc's streets and curbs (probably because they were all just cut and paste lengths of street taken from that one short stretch of street in the NG vignette map), so I've actually gone to the trouble of making entirely new streets and curbs for Verbo using quality high-res textures from external (non-proprietary) sources. Adding them to the Verbo map effectively will take some work.

      Grass | Some of the grass in Verbobonc looks a bit low-res, so eventually it will all be upgraded with higher resolution textures.

    • Building scaling | Verbobonc

      Some of the buildings in Verbo look a bit out of scale, so this will be fixed wherever it can. Not a big problem, just an irritant.

    • NPC Interactivity | Verbobonc

      Some NPCs in Verbobonc will become better informed and more interactive thanks to the use of the Sitra Achara script-activated 32 bit NPC flags. This means they can say a much wider variety of intelligent things at the right times and not repeat themselves over and over, among other things.

    • Other potential improvements:

      Pathfinding (in Hommlet?) | On what maps do you think pathfinding is poorest in the game, and where on those maps specifically?

      Elimination of jerkstop | Got a couple more ideas on this we might try, such as forcing clearing of the map cache (currently optional in TFE-X) and moving Brother Smyth into his smithy in order to get him (and all his associated scripting/animations/et al) off the Hommlet exterior map.

      Elimination of lag (if only!) | Can we alter the particle system on some potentially offending mobs in the nodes, which seems to be the most current culprit theory? We'll see. Other reasonable ideas welcome.

      Making NPCs react to the deaths of other NPCs | Not everybody everywhere, but Rufus should be sad if Burne is dead, for example (due to their long-rumored but never substantiated love affair ;) ).

    List!
     
    Gaear, Apr 25, 2011
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  2. Skittles

    Skittles Kind of Delicious

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    Pathfinding in Hommlet is at its worst north of the river, for me, especially trying to get to Black Jay's and Nira's.

    I had one cringeworthy pathfinding moment when Thrommel wandered down a random hallway in the Temple, on the second level, though the rest of the party walked directly towards the indicated destination. We were going in a southwest direction down the grand hallway, once guarded by an Ogre Shaman and a couple of flunkies.

    As far as NPCs reacting to deaths, I can't really seem to get Lodriss to react to Skole's untimely end. That would make sense to me. That's the only blatant offender for me, that I can think of.

    Lag--I've actually noticed that as the result of the torches in the Moathouse as well as the Temple. I could probably tweak my own settings, but that would be my focus.

    I also encountered a bug in Hommlet worth noting here if it hasn't already been brought up. When travelling from Nulb, I encountered some lacedons. As soon as combat finished, I world mapped to Hommlet. When we arrived, my party and all other Hommletians were locking in combat stances, with my party leader selected. We were not apparently in combat mode. No movements or actions were possible. Things I tried:

    -> Loading same save slot, which fixed nothing.
    -> Forcing combat mode, which worked, except everything was still frozen.
    --> Also tried delaying actions, in the hopes that it would allow actions if a new character got to start his turn from scratch.
    -->Also of note, my action bar went down when I tried things, including moving, spellcasting, and offensive actions, but nothing occurred. Spells counted as spent, even though no spell was successfully cast (in roll window, in character screens, etc.)
    -> Travelling to another part of Hommlet, which left my party locked.
    -> Travelling elsewhere, outside of Hommlet, which unlocked my party, but returning to Hommlet refroze them.
    --> Engaging in combat when elsewhere, same problem on return to Hommlet.
    --> Resting elsewhere, ditto.

    Ultimately had to load an older save and have not encountered the problem since.

    Anyway, obnoxious bug. I do wonder if it's related to the fact that everybody in Hommlet spawns in combat mode and then relaxes given time... I mean, when I look around Hommlet independent of my party, there are tons of kids in combat mode.
     
    Skittles, Apr 25, 2011
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  3. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    The combat stance is actually the default stance for an inactive mob, so that's normal. You don't normally notice it except in towns, where fog of war has been disabled. (You wouldn't be able to see inactive mobs otherwise.)

    Your arrival in Hommlet lock sounds like jerkstop. Q: do you by any chance have an Extraplanar Chest in inventory?
     
    Gaear, Apr 25, 2011
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  4. Skittles

    Skittles Kind of Delicious

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    Yes, I do have a Chest. Would I be better off without it?

    Ah, I guess that it does sound like jerkstop. I had thought jerkstop allowed some freedom of action, but was a problem with issuing commands, not a straight up freeze. Sorry to re-report a known bug!
     
    Skittles, Apr 25, 2011
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  5. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    It can be both, actually; either you arrive on a map (like center Hommlet, from exiting the inn or via the worldmap) and stand there in a frozen scream of agony, or you can herky-jerk move around.

    The chest has aroused some suspicion re: jerkstop. Would you be willing to try a game without one (never use/summon/banish the chest or even cast the spell) and see what happens?

    To any and all other jerkstoppers, to the best of your recollections, have you had jerkstop with and/or without the extraplanar chest in inventory?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2011
    Gaear, Apr 25, 2011
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  6. Skittles

    Skittles Kind of Delicious

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    Definitely, though finishing up my current playthrough, and probably my finals, would be good. I'll get back about it soon. Anything else to play with while I'm on it?
     
    Skittles, Apr 25, 2011
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  7. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    From the Militia captain's house north to the woodcutter. I use the signpost to get to the Captain's house then head north to the woodcutter whenever I need to see him. Some characters try to go between the houses, which messes everyone else up and some take a wide path to the East before cutting back to the Woodcutter's house.

    Any chance of adding a direct link from the signpost to his house?
     
    General Ghoul, Apr 25, 2011
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  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I don't see why not. We'll take a look at the pathing too though - it really shouldn't be too tough too improve it where we know it's not efficient.

    Nope, just that should do. Thanks. :)
     
    Gaear, Apr 25, 2011
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  9. Ank

    Ank Established Member

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    Some minor' npc iteraction sugestions regarding currently(in village/town) provided services:
    1)resting, maybe limit the amount of time u can have a room rented to you (its not funny when yr party comes back as living dead (close to 0 hp party wide , attributes drained , most of them sick) and u say here's 2 gold for a room (and u take a few short' weeks of r&r so u end up fully healed cured of all disease and fully restored spells)
    2)healing , when u can for just 2 gold get yr party back to full str (excepting the need for a revival , see 1) ) who is ever going to fork out theyr cash to either terjeon/jaroo/.../ to get things like cure * wounds or disease ??
    3)pack mule issue , u need 2+ trips back to town' to unload all that resulted from scrapping small' legions of enemies residing in one area (worse part is yr mostly dealing with items slightly more valuable the rusty long swords) and smth like this gets frustrating fast
    Surely i'm not the first to notice how funny/ilogical these 3 things are... so maybe something like this can be done : limit room rental to a period of 8h(or 12 if u must) this way u got to chose risking an outdoor camping or fork out the cash for some healing in town' OR (this could require long/tricky codding ) enlist the aid of 'a smaal doonation' towards some church of choice by unloading' the junk pile in theyr back yard (smth along the lines of an extra planar chest where u deposit all yr junk) and in exchange u get service discounts(or some free services) based on how much u donated' (smth along the lines : 1k gold donated : free access to cure lite wounds ... u know what i mean) as for justification rather easy to figure : terjeon wants to help burne finish the fort as for jaroo who knows after all feeding he's bear may not be very easy :roll:
    ToEE front end x addition : char creation can be a bit of a pain when u reach the attribute's rolling part :just isn't funny when u roll 20 times just to get 2 darned 16 or so to place in constitution and clas's most important attribute (dex for a rogue/wis for druid etc) and the point buy system is no help either(u can at most obtain a mediocre char) so maybe as convenience thing set an option in the front end so u can specify just how many points the point buy system can use: the current amount is rly low i myself would consider NWN 1's point buy amount to be optimal (30 points) this one allows for a decent char that performs' acceptable on his role. This is rly open for debate about wich amount of points is optimal but 1 thing is for sure: an option to adjust the amount of availible points for char creation is welcomed , rerolling stats endlessly is at least for me a real pain (yeah i know there are char editors /cheats... to alter stats but why would u want to use those??.. u aren't interested in building superman all u want is the 'above average joe' capable of doing hes job in 60% of cases)
    Sry for the novel like post and hopefully some of what i sugested is possible&usefull to implement
     
    Ank, Apr 25, 2011
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  10. Sergio Morozov

    Sergio Morozov Paladin

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    There is a known "cheat" allowing for as many points as you wish ;)
     
    Sergio Morozov, Apr 25, 2011
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  11. Ipon

    Ipon Member

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    Improvements:

    - Allow a method of changing a character's voice after creation. Because eventually you'll mix-n-match and have the same two voices in the same party. Same for portrait.

    - Allow a color chooser for crafted cloaks (blue is soooo boring)

    - Ability to turn off persistent spell effects in a convenient way so I can just turn them off for big combats like against the salamanders in the 2nd level of the temple

    - ability to override default keymappings. (Many of the logical keys for common functions are taken up by default obscure things like Combat Formation -- instead of Feint)

    - a way to "keep using potions until I'm all healed up" with reasonable usage (no crit-pot for 1hp more)

    - a hot key for accepting "all" in a split for items. So when try to loot the gems off a corpse you don't have to deal with the split-screen prompt so much.
     
    Ipon, Apr 25, 2011
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  12. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    These kinds of improvements, while obviously welcome, require hard-core reverse engineering of the temple.dll file (aka "DLL Hell"). There were a few people in here that were perhaps capable of accomplishing some of that, but no longer...

    Suggestions should focus on things that are possible with scripting, dialogue and map-editing.

    In case you're puzzled as to how it is intended to combat lag/jerkstop, it's just by trying to eliminate suspected triggers (it's very much like witch hunting ;) ).

    Although, I think it's possible to add a point-buy setting to the TFE-X - checking with Agetian now...
     
    Sitra Achara, Apr 25, 2011
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  13. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Isn't this based on the type of cloak? Charisma cloaks are red/pink, elven cloaks are black, etc.
     
    General Ghoul, Apr 25, 2011
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  14. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi
    Believe it or not, I am pretty happy with the game as it is... with one exception. PLEASE add the "Control Animal Followers" function from KoTB. I freely confess (sorry Ted) that it has been a while since I last played KoTB, but I seem to remember the CAF function working fairly well the time or two that I tried it. It is very annoying to have Meleny's Jackal charge into the middle of the fray, when I would rather it stayed in the back to guard Meleny and the Wizard when Bugbears flank my "Tanks".
    The Royal Canadian
     
    The Royal Canadian, Apr 26, 2011
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  15. Broken Finger

    Broken Finger Member

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    Never played KoTB, but if there is a possibility to add animal control, I would like to second that, since that would make them actually useful, instead of being a burden to a party's healer.
     
    Broken Finger, Apr 26, 2011
    #15
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